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How low can you go?

25 Aug 2007 08:16 pm

In discussing health care, one often hears about how low America ranks on the WHO survey--37th in the world! This is true. But there are a couple of problems with it.

First of all, that survey is getting a little elderly; it hails from 2000. In the normal course of economics writing, that's pretty dated; my editors at The Economist would never have let me discuss health systems using a ranking that outdated. In general, an economics writer has to have a pretty darn good reason for using data more than a couple of years old.

Also, as John Stossel notes, many of the measures it uses, such as life expectancy, may be exogenous to the health system:

The WHO judged a country's quality of health on life expectancy. But that's a lousy measure of a health-care system. Many things that cause premature death have nothing do with medical care. We have far more fatal transportation accidents than other countries. That's not a health-care problem.

Similarly, our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada.

When you adjust for these "fatal injury" rates, U.S. life expectancy is actually higher than in nearly every other industrialized nation.

Now a liberal might argue that crime and auto accidents could be resolved by other items on the progressive agenda. I disagree (for starters, from what I understand, America's higher homicide rate long predates the emergence of the European welfare states), but that's a legitimate argument in favour of a broader progressive platform. However, it undercuts the belief that single payer is going to magically improve things.

Other indicators seem almost cherry-picked to make America drop down on the rankings. Equality of distribution, for example, is heavily weighted; so heavily weighted that quality of basic care suffers in comparison. That's why places like Morocco, the Dominican Republic, and Costa Rica clean our clocks.

Now, personally, I don't really care about equality of distribution per se. I don't care if Bill Gates gets super-awesome treatment; what I want to know is, are people suffering and dying from lack of care?

Obviously, those things are linked, and it's not unreasonable that an egalitarian would put that on their list of criteria. But one would hope that the WHO rankings would reflect, to a first approximation, where you'd rather get sick. Does anyone really think that they'd rather be the average consumer of health care in Colombia, than in Columbus, Ohio?

But what about the worst off, you might say? What about them? The WHO table isn't even a good ranking of where I'd prefer to be poor. I'd far rather be an uninsured day laborer in San Francisco, than in the Dominican Republic. For that matter, I'd rather be uninsured anywhere in the United States than an average citizen in Costa Rica.

This is a problem for those touting our low ranking. I can't say I know what our ranking should be; a lot depends on value judgements that it would be hard to gather consensus for. But whatever our true ranking is, I'm pretty sure we're not behind a significant chunk of Latin America. You don't see a lot of uninsured illegal immigrants trying to get home for the awesome health coverage.

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Comments (103)

If you actually read that WHO report,it seems to be more a ranking of which country has the best socialized healthcare system rather than which country has the best healthcare period. Most of the categories have nothing to do with healthcare; they are more focused on fairness and distribution. In the one category which measures satisfaction with actual healthcare received(I think they call it "responsiveness") the US is #1. As Megan mentioned life expectancy is not a good indicator of healthcare effectiveness, it is influenced more by lifestyle choices than healthcare.

You know, I'd go into why your argument is offensively ironic, but it would be a greater gift if you just stopped embarrassing yourself.

I apologize for whoever posted the previous ridiculous comment. Thanks for citing some of the obvious holes in the WHO study, I appreciate knowing for sure that the study is completely misleading.

As a costarican, i have to say i'd rather be insured in my country wich (not too bad) may be bureucratic, but for the rest i am getting the health care a person just like me is ABSOLUTELLY lacking in your country. so to say.

So, I can tell you've got exactly zero experience with public health services in Costa Rica or the Dominican Republic. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Further, you speculating about where you rather be poor is one of those moments you might return to in the future and find particularly embarrassing, assuming you ever develop the kind of self awareness that keeps other people from making absolute fools of themselves in public.

But, ok, given that every objection you've expressed to the WHO study is true, would adjusting those move the U.S. to the top of the list? Near the top? Near enough to justify spending far more than anyone else for inferior care? Because, you know, that's the main point the WHO study is used to establish - not that just we receive inferior care, but that what we pay is completely unjustified given the poor level of care we receive.

A piece like this that doesn't even mention our place in the infant mortality rankings doesn't deserve much comment. Or is that also explained away by transportation accidents and homicide rates?

Megan is right. The WHO rankings are fatally flawed (and out of date)--and are essentially rigged to favor socialist systems. But the WHO recognized some of the American system's great strengths. To quote one astute observer:

"...even according to the WHO the US medical system treats individuals with the greatest respect, offers them the most freedom, and gives them the highest quality of basic amenities. Sounds pretty good to me."

The American system certainly has its failings, but a rational observer will concede that it is in some crucial respects the best in the world.

Oh - and John Stossel? Who will you be citing next - Bill O'Reilly? Stossel is a massive tool.

It seems worthwhile to address the oft-cited infant mortality statistics. Presumably the United States has a higher rate of infant mortality becuase some poor pregnant women are not getting adequate care (or are not taking adequte care of themselves). A targeted subsidy for these women would take care of the problem. There is no need to nationalize the whole health care industry.

Seriously, I'm drunk, and I don't want to be too hard on you. But John Stossel?

I'd far rather be an uninsured day laborer in San Francisco, than in the Dominican Republic. For that matter, I'd rather be uninsured anywhere in the United States than an average citizen in Costa Rica.

Please consider being an uninsured day laborer.

What do you say to experts when you have more than 50 million uninsured citizen? Do you expect them to put you on top of the list? Morocco, as modest a country as it is, has universal coverage. My experience with the health care system in the USA has been awfully bad. You make an appointment with your Dr. and you have to wait between 20 to 45 mins before you can hear your name. What's the point of making an appointment? I took my baby to a pediatrician and I was made to wait 45 minutes in a small room that they closed us in. After 30 minutes I opened the door and let my baby run with his diaper--as he was naked--to attract the attention of the staff; no one seems to care. Mind you I have a very good insurance policy. On another occasion, the administrative staff were discussing in front of me whether the shots the baby got were the right ones or not? And one thing that bothers me more than anything else is why the needle has to go straight into the skin when it can be injected obliquely like in the rest of Europe? Why is the blood taken from a vein on the right hand when it should be taken from a vein on the left hand, the left hand being closer to the heart? Etc Etc. No offense! We can't just assume we are the best, because hoards of immigrants from Latin America are lining up on the Southern border? Or that we have the best technology? No we don't anymore! We need to look ourselves in the mirror and think.

I disagree (for starters, from what I understand, America's higher homicide rate long predates the emergence of the European welfare states),

Ok, ok, ok. I come to you and your dear supporters in the spirit of compromise and a desire for detente. But can anyone please-- please-- describe for me precisely how this sentence does anything whatsoever to disprove the claim that came before it? Throw me a bone.

Also, who is claiming that single-payer is going to magically fix every problem in our health care system? That is a very flimsy straw man. Please, show me I'm wrong. Point me in the direction of a single rational figure from whatever political spectrum who thinks that switching to single-payer is going to magically solve all our problems. That is precisely the kind of freshmen-civics-class-essay snark and muddled thinking that has provoked hostility to you.

Most importantly, though... where is the evidence to defend the claim that it's better to be poor in America than in countries with universal health care? I'm looking high and low. I mean, you and your pet commenters seem to think that that notion is just self-evidently true. Well, sorry. I don't agree, and it's gonna take more than argument through assertion. How about that day laborer in San Francisco? If he's like many impoverished people with no coverage, he doesn't go to the emergency room (because that's where he'll go) with an ailment, until it either a)kills him or b)is so advanced that it costs many thousands of times more to treat him. That's your grand American system? Please, describe for me the mechanism through which you think the 47 million people in this country should go about obtaining health care. Please. Devote as many words as you want, but tell me what you think someone with no insurance and no money should do. Are your positions on health care really dependent on this utter trivializing of the difficulty involved for those with no coverage?

The American system certainly has its failings, but a rational observer will concede that it is in some crucial respects the best in the world.

It gets tiring to keep saying this. But just saying it doesn't make it so. There are plenty of rational observers who don't concede anything of the kind, and they--as rational agents are wont to do-- usually require evidence to support claims like this.

A piece like this that doesn't even mention our place in the infant mortality rankings doesn't deserve much comment. Or is that also explained away by transportation accidents and homicide rates?

The infant mortality is due to different measurement criteria.

In the US, pretty much any baby that comes out with a pulse is counted as a live birth. Doesn't even have to be breathing, doesn't matter if it weighs 2 lbs, it is a live birth.

Most other countries have much stricter criteria, eg the baby that lives less than 24 hours is counted as a stillbirth, likewise extremely premature babies and extremely small babies.

"I'd rather be uninsured anywhere in the United States than an average citizen in Costa Rica."

Wow, that's just ignorant. Clearly you know little of Costa Rica, so why make this?


Hmm, I read the comments and see all sorts piling on when it comes to a statement like, Costa Rica!!? You know nothing about costarica!

One person claims to be from there, and the others claim no special knowledge whatsoever. Of course you do have a couple that seem to claim to know everything about everything, as you look through the threads.

Being married to a person of Latin heritage (South American), has given me some very specific knowledge about a relatively small segment of their society, i.e., the middle and upper class. (I can hear the boos and hisses from the Bolsheviks)

In one case, one of the ultra rich of the world is a citizen of a European country, who has a house in that country and lives there, pretty much year round (England). He always comes to the USA to get his health care, even though he can stay in England (or go anywhere else in the world, for that matter), but chooses the USA because he realizes that we do have the best medical care system in the world. Having cancer tends to give you focus in life, too.

From Brazil, there are a number of middle class people who have all come to the USA (Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, Scripps hospirals, etc.) for anything more than a wellness checkup. The slightest problem and they are on a plane to the US to get it fixed.

Tut-tut all you want, give Megan the bum's rush, whatever, but you folks that have a tendency to spit venom instead of rationally discussing issues, well, I'm beginning to get the idea you just don't like anyone who doesn't have an exact replica of your thoughts carved into their grey matter.

Sweetie, I just hope for your sake you never have to be uninsured, or even try to get individual insurance, or for that matter, come down with some condition your insurance company doesn't want to pay for.

And what the holy heck are you doing comparing the US with Colombia? Do you really think that the richest nation in the world should aspire only to be a bit better in health care than poor countries?

Would you rather be uninsured in the US or under the German healthcare plan?

If you say you'd rather be uninsured in the US, either you're lying or you have no idea what it's like to be uninsured. Of course people are dying because they don't have insurance. It happens all the time. I know someone who needs a lung transplant and will probably die without it, and she is uninsured because she's "uninsurable", that is, she had the temerity to get sick, thus meaning no insurance company will touch her now.

I know a woman whose husband got laid off and then got cancer. The surgeon donated his time, but the hospital wouldn't donate-- allowed one operation, then started suing this fella and wouldn't allow him to be treated there. He died. His widow lost her house, all their savings, everything. She's 67 years old and can't retire-- no money.

Do not tell me, honey, that we're lucky. The only reason you can say that is because you are not battling a condition, like I am, which requires very expensive (standard) medication which my insurance company will not pay for because it's "out-patient". Of course, MOST medication, including most cancer chemo, is "out-patient". In most any other country, I wouldn't have to be beggaring myself to get a necessary medication.

You can go on having your silly, uninformed opinion... just as long as you stay healthy-- and your spouse, your parents, and your children. And you know what? I can just about predict that one of those people are going to get sick. Your parents, at least, probably have a great national health policy (called Medicare). I hope no one else you love gets sick. Because then you'd have to actually do some thinking about our health care policy instead of bloviating without any thought or information at all.

This is not some political talking point to most of us. It's real life. You are just very, very lucky that it is, at this point, still abstract to you. But if you think that anyone who knows anything really about this finds your ramblings insightful, well, you're wrong. I could go to the zoo and ask the zebras and get more insight. You have just shown how uninformed and naive you are. I can't believe a reputable magazine like The Atlantic would pay anyone so vapid. It's scary. Punditry has been reduced to the lowest denominator-- willfully ignorant people who go on and on about how much smarter they are than those who actually know.

Go away. Soon. Please.

Two Square,

If you are rich or have good insurance the US system is one of the best in the world. But that's not what Megan said when comparing with Costa Rica. She claimed that it was better to have no insurance in the US than be covered in Costa Rica. And that's just ignorant.

Excellent point, Two Square. The United States does provide excellent care for the wealthy. Unfortunately, that's not at issue here.

Megan's commenters give her a hard time when she spouts off about things with nothing in the way of actual knowledge - the public health services of Columbia, where she'd rather be poor. It's not so much a disagreement over substance as it is a reaction to a lack of substance combined with a surfeit of arrogance.


jenn-

What do you say to experts when you have more than 50 million uninsured citizen?

Umm... "Talk to me."?

I am one of the "uninsured citizens" that you speak of!

I have been voluntarily "uninsured" since 1992-- (I was 28 at the time- I will turn 43 in October). I still can't believe I didn't learn sooner...

I was quite happy being "uninsured" for the last 15 years (my only health expense before 2007 was for "lasik surgery"- yet, I had never, ever received "vision coverage" in any employer plan that I was ever eligible for...)

-- Unfortunately, I was in an auto accident last November 17-- I "rolled" my car three times off the freeway. I sustained a 'compounded' "monteggia fracture" (Bado type I) of my left (dominant) arm. (Dislocated elbow and wrist- serious damage to my ulnar nerve- not to mention the ulna was 'visible'-- at a literally 'sickening' angle in it's protrusion from my forearm...

I repeat... Uninsured!

Remember 1992? I simply took the $4k my previous employer was paying (in my name) for my health insurance at the time- and bought an "S&P 500 mutual fund"... and also in 1993... ditto 1994, etc.

Repeat... through 2007.

My total medical bills were almost $52K.

Paid in full--

Cash! (And, I'm still up almost $100K-- because I wasn't forced to subsidize some old crusty f*ck's health care at the same time-)

(...other than the $24,600 that I paid for 55 hrs in a hospital room!) (Saturday at 3AM -- Monday at 10 AM)

But, since I don't work no more... I'll happily let you tax some poor kid to pay my medical bills... from now on!


Gabriel,
She claimed that it was better to have no insurance in the US than be covered in Costa Rica. And that's just ignorant.

What she said was:

But what about the worst off, you might say? What about them? The WHO table isn't even a good ranking of where I'd prefer to be poor. I'd far rather be an uninsured day laborer in San Francisco, than in the Dominican Republic. For that matter, I'd rather be uninsured anywhere in the United States than an average citizen in Costa Rica.

It's about total quality of life, not medical coverage. Looks like Costa Rica has higher unemployment, more people below the poverty line and a significantly lower GDP per person than the US.

This comment deleted for calling single-payer systems socialist

"And what the holy heck are you doing comparing the US with Colombia?"

Perhaps if you had bothered to read the first three sentences of MC Ardle's post, we could have been spared your spittle-flecked dribble.

But here it is again, for your edification:

"In discussing health care, one often hears about how low America ranks on the WHO survey--37th in the world! This is true. But there are a couple of problems with it."


Furthermore, while John Stossel maybe a tool, he does have an enormously provocative mustache. And hating on him does not make this any less true:

"our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada."

which severely skews the healthcare ratings in other countries' favor.

Are you really sure, that you would like to be a uninsured day labourer - getting a cancer from say pesticide or sun exposure, rejected by a hospital because of lack of insurance - and then going away to die on the street or in a hovel. Be careful what you wish for!
As for Stossel's comments, any injury whether fatal or not, is a healthcare problem - indeed improper healthcare can quite easily turn an injury lethal. Only those injuries that are immediately fatal can rightly be considered exogenous to the health system.
[b]My question still remains unanswered, would you prefer to be priced or triaged out of treatment? [/b]

oh look, another attack on a weak argument for universal health care coverage.

are we ever going to get to your attacks against the good arguments? The threads over the last several days are full of really good and unrebutted arguments.

". My experience with the health care system in the USA has been awfully bad. You make an appointment with your Dr. and you have to wait between 20 to 45 mins before you can hear your name."

My experience with single-payer health care is that 20 to 45 mins counts as "almost no wait," while 1 to 2 hours is normal and anything up to 5 hours can happen. This is the kind of American complaint that people back home laugh about (like how rich and unaware you people are).

*

My country did pretty well on the WHO ratings last time they came out. One of the reasons is that we have a low education score (ratio of education to care is one of the important factors it seems). Given that our education system is much better than it used to be, we will be falling in the rankings next time as the older (uneducated) generations die out.

Actually, Stossel's arguments are more or less garbage.

I'm going to use one year's mortality rates to give a snap shot of the magnitude of the effect "exogenus" causes of death can have on life expectancy. Yes, I understand the difference between life expectancy and yearly mortality, but I'm just looking for a ball-park magnitude here.

In 1996 the preliminary crude death rate was 875.4 per 100,000 population.
Homicide accounts for 7.8 of those, suicide for 11.6, Accidents and adverse effects for 35.4.
Every other cause of death was health related - heart disease, lung diseases, etc.
So, the total non-health care related causes equals 54.6, or %6.2 of the total.

So, any differential effect that e.g. our ridiculously high homicide rates as compared to Brittan's have on the comparison of life expectancy (or, mortality, in this example) must be limited to some portion of that %6.2.
Given that that was only one criteria used to establish the WHO rankings, the effect on the total ranking has to be vanishingly small.

Those are CDC numbers. Here's the link: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00049527.htm

Can we just agree that Stossel is an intellectually dishonest tool?

Yes, the WHO study dates from 2000. And more recent studies have shown that...? Oh, McArdle hasn't looked at any more recent studies. Here are a few I could Google in the roughly 5 minutes I am willing to devote to rebutting this post, since I, unlike McArdle, don't get paid for this.

OECD Health Data 2007
How Does the United States Compare

Despite the relatively high level of health expenditure in the United States, there are fewer physicians per capita than in most other OECD countries. In 2005, the United States had 2.4 practising physicians per 1 000 population, below the OECD average of 3.0...The number of acute care hospital beds in the United States in 2005 was 2.7 per 1 000 population, also lower than the OECD average of 3.9 beds...

...In the United States, life expectancy at birth increased by 7.9 years between 1960 and 2004, which is less than the increase of over 14 years in Japan, or 8.9 years in Canada. In 2004/5, life expectancy in the United States stood at 77.8 years, almost one year below the OECD average of 78.6 years...Infant mortality rates in the United States have fallen greatly over the past few decades, but not as much as in most other OECD countries. It stood at 6.8 deaths per 1 000 live births in 2004, above the OECD average of 5.4....


Comparison study shows U.S. low in primary care physician visits June 13, 2007

The average American spends a total of about 30 minutes a year with a primary care physician...
Findings showed patient-physician time in the US is about half the average of New Zealand and one-third of Australia.

β€œThe substantially shorter time per capita in the US ...impacts preventive care and management of chronic conditions in the US and could explain why the US does not achieve health outcomes that correspond to its higher level of investment in health care,” said study lead author Andrew Bindman, MD, of the University of California, San Francisco.

A systematic review of studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the United States -- Guyatt et. al., 2007

"We identified 38 studies comparing populations of patients in Canada and the United States. Studies addressed diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results. ...
Interpretation: Available studies suggest that health outcomes may be superior in patients cared for in Canada versus the United States, but differences are not consistent."

And so on, and so on. Can you find studies showing areas of superior care in the US? Yes; it seems the US does better at keeping cancer patients alive. But given that we are spending at least 1.6 times as much per patient as any other country in the world, it's not surprising we're at least better at something. What's dismal is that we're spending twice as much per patient as countries that are walloping us in terms of most of the indexes of care -- not to mention sucking it up royally in terms of preventive care.

That Aussie-NZ vs. US study reveals one of the keys here: Australians and Kiwis, because they have universal coverage, do indeed go to the doctor more often than Americans. But Australia and NZ spend LESS per capita on health care, not more. Maybe when insurance companies try to reduce the number of times patients see their doctors, that doesn't result in overall improved efficiency? Maybe they end up getting sicker?

From the John Stossel column:

When was the last time you heard of someone leaving this country to get medical care?

Last week. Flying into Bangkok for lasik eye surgery. Bumrungrad Hospital is also one of the world's best for sex change operations; lots of Americans there for that one, too. Similarly, there are hospitals in Singapore that rank number one in the world -- above every American hospital -- in certain procedures. Per capita income in Singapore is about 2/3 of the US; they have universal health coverage.

When you adjust for these "fatal injury" rates, U.S. life expectancy is actually higher than in nearly every other industrialized nation.

Where does he get this figure? Who is he citing? What are the underlying stats? Looks like bull crap to me. As long as we're tossing out stats we seem to remember hearing somewhere, how about this one: if you take away the US's black population, then our lag behind other OECD countries in infant mortality disappears. Now, I wonder what that might indicate about how our health system works.

When I started reading this blog I hoped for something better. Megan seems like a nice person, and while I am far from being a libertarian I'm willing to look at intellectually honest arguments in support of her cause with an open mind. I'm not seeing them here. I see instead Megan's regurgitation of a ludicrous argument about our low life expectancy being due to our high rate of violent deaths, a grade school version of Robert Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia, and a misleading and offensive comparison of our health system with those of poor countries that try hard but don't have the resources we do. If Megan argued that a low level of basic services is the price we have to pay to encourage entrepeneurial risk taking and technological innovation, I'd listen. But apparently that's too difficult for her intended target audience. Or maybe it's too difficult for her.

Fletch, the only reason your story isn't a tragic tale is because it didn't happen on November 17, 1993.

Having the good fortune to have a catastrophic event occur when you'd been saving up for it for 15 years isn't exactly a prescription for anyone. Anyone.

This thread is full of anecdotes and ad hominems and arguments from authority. There are a couple of posts with actual links to information. But a lot of the "rebuttals" are just attacks.

Infant mortality statistics around the world are not comparable. Every country has different criteria for counting live births versus infant mortalities. There is no real meaningful way to compare them. Using them in a ranking of health care systems is silly.

Accident and murder rates affect the ranking of health care systems by reducing life expectancies and by adding a burden to the health care system. Our system deals with a lot more trauma cases than those of other countries. This is not a good thing and our murder rate/violence rate is a problem, but it's not a failing of the health care system.

Our number of uninsured citizens includes a LOT of people who are young and healthy and who choose not to be insured. They may be foolish, but they are making a choice. In other countries, where taxes are high and insurance is mandatory, they don't have that choice. Again, this is not a failing of the health care system.

Even heart disease can be an issue of life style choices and not of the health care system. Americans are fat. Even our poor are fat. Fat people have more heart disease. So what percentage of deaths by heart attack are caused by Americans being fat versus failings in the health care system? I don't know.

EI

"There are plenty of rational observers who don't concede anything of the kind, and they--as rational agents are wont to do-- usually require evidence to support claims like this.-Freddit

If they are rational they must be ill-informed. The United States has the highest cancer survival rate. Perhaps you think its just luck that we are beating single-payer Canada and Britain, but any rational observer will conclude that we have the best cancer treatment. Look here if you don't believe it: cancer survival rates

Megan

I do like you, but citing John Stossel's analysis of anything makes it very hard to take you seriously.

This thread is full of anecdotes... -- EI

Uh, dude:

Infant mortality statistics around the world are not comparable...Our system deals with a lot more trauma cases than those of other countries...Our number of uninsured citizens includes a LOT of people who are young and healthy and who choose not to be insured... -- EI

Physician heal thyself, as it were.

The differences in survival are due to a variety of reasons, Dr. Verdecchia and colleagues write. They include factors related to cancer services β€” for example, organization, training, and skills of healthcare professionals; application of evidence-based guidelines; and investment in diagnostic and treatment facilities β€” as well as clinical factors, such as tumor stage and biology.-medscape.com, webmmd

This is a summary of the findings of Dr. Verdecchia as published in Lancet Oncology. Does anyone here still deny that the United States has the best health care in the world in some important respects?

Isocrates, funny how you make this only about Britain and Canada when the two countries right on the United States' tail both have socialized health care.

The big question is what would happen if we devoted the U.S.'s current resources to a single-payer system that was funded at the same rate we currently fund private health insurance? We spend hundreds, if not thousands more than every other country on earth on health care per capita which, in any logical world, should result in better survival rates.

The real question is whether or not we're getting maximal benefit for spending $2 to 2.5K more per capita on healthcare per individual, and the answer is pretty flatly "no".

Does anyone here still deny that the United States has the best health care in the world in some important respects?

Cancer survival rates after diagnosis do appear to be higher in the US. I have read that this may be an artifact of earlier detection in the US, rather than more effective treatment; patients may not be living much longer, but they appear to survive longer with cancer because their cancers are caught early.

Anyway, it's interesting that the US has managed to achieve this excellence in cancer diagnosis and treatment with a health care system that is 45% government-funded. Obviously, many of the dollars that are paying for American cancer diagnosis and treatment are taxpayer-supplied Medicare dollars. This, of course, is what Ms. McArdle would like to eliminate: no more subsidies of the old and sick by the young and healthy! Could America's oncology establishment survive such a cutoff of funds? Who knows? But someone's confused pseudo-schmibertarian principles demand that no more extorted taxpayer dollars go to subsidizing the sick, because most of them are old; so, too bad.

You don't see a lot of uninsured illegal immigrants trying to get home for the awesome health coverage.

This is pure anecdote, but I know two immigrants (I'm pretty sure Gerard's legal -- he's married to a citizen, anyway; couldn't tell you about Adela) who went back to their Latin American countries of origin for medical treatment they couldn't afford here. Gerard went back to Uruguay with a badly broken leg that needed surgery and physical therapy, and Adela went back to the DR to get her diabeties under control. I don't know that the medical care they got is superior to what they would have gotten here if they could have afforded it, but it was medical care that they could afford.

Does anyone here still deny that the United States has the best health care in the world in some important respects?

Yes! And you know that they do, because you're here participating in this discussion, so you have probably been exposed to people who do indeed deny that many times. I don't know if it's a common trait for libertarians, but there is an incredible frequency around here, from both McArdle and her supporters, to simply assert a claim and act as though it is so self-evidently true that you can't counter-argue it. A single expert claims that the US is the best in some areas of medicine, and based on that individual quote-- which again, is bereft of evidence-- I'm supposed to abandon my objections? Come on.

And again, I keep reading stuff like this here:

Tut-tut all you want, give Megan the bum's rush, whatever, but you folks that have a tendency to spit venom instead of rationally discussing issues

The people who are disagreeing with Megan aren't having a rational discussion? That's funny, I find sound argument after sound argument from people disagreeing with her. Most of the arguments are certainly stronger than, say, this post. I'm still waiting for someone to show me a single piece of evidence in the last two paragraphs to defend her claim that it's better to be poor and uninsured in America than to be insured but living in Costa Rica or other poor countries. She's put that out there as a lynch pin argument and made absolutely no supporting claims from evidence. And then you guys turn around and attack her critics for not being rational. Over and over again she doesn't even meet the most basic criteria for defending an argument. She's got to get to the point where she realizes that the fact that something seems self-evident to her is not generally considered logically compelling.

What am I waiting for, really, from her or from any of you, is a description of what, exactly, the 47 million people in this country without insurance should do when they get sick. What is that day laborer in San Francisco supposed to do? If he's like many people, he doesn't get help at all, or he goes to the emergency room when he feels he absolutely has to. Emergency rooms, after all, can't turn away people who come to them, unlike other doctors. It's a disaster for our ERs, but again, these people don't have a choice. It's enormously expensive for all of us, it's inefficient, it takes doctors and resources away from the work they are supposed to be doing, and because they are treating conditions that are inappropriate for ER treatment, the quality of that care suffers.

As I said before, if someone wants to tell me what precisely they think someone without insurance in this country should do to obtain health care, I'm all ears. Preferably an option that doesn't leave them with financially debilitating debt.

brooksfoe,

The infant mortality issue, higher trauma rate, and statistics on voluntary uninsured citizens are not anecdotes. I have seen plenty of statistics and discussions of these in various places. I don't have the links right now, but they should be easy to find.

The anecdotes I'm referring to are all the stories about individual experiences. Those don't really prove anything.

Just out of curiosity, but do the per capita expenditure rates include voluntary procedures like plastic surgery and other unnecessary procedures? I keep reading that Americans are taking too many pain meds and/or mental health related meds. Are those included in the per capita expenditures?

The fact that we have people who have no insurance does not logically require a single-payer or socialized health care system to solve... there are many other ways to solve this problem.

Personally, having been watching our congress pretty closely for a while, now, I really don't want to give those corrupt idiots control of the health care industry.

EI

This post was a discussion of the WHO study that ranks US healthcare as 37th in the world. It did a few things

1. Showed how the WHO ranking works
2. Explained why it probably does not accurately reflect the performance of the US healthcare system.

One of the money quotes from the post was

Other indicators seem almost cherry-picked to make America drop down on the rankings. Equality of distribution, for example, is heavily weighted; so heavily weighted that quality of basic care suffers in comparison. That's why places like Morocco, the Dominican Republic, and Costa Rica clean our clocks.
Which explained why the US lower rank is related not to the quality of medical care but rather to how it is distributed.

In other words a bad healthcare system that equally distributed bad healthcare would be ranked higher then a system that had good, excellent healthcare but gave some people excellent healthcare and the rest good healthcare.

This generates a comment thread with forty plus comments

Two (thanks brooksfoe and cs) provided data and useful additional information. There were a few other comments that provided insight or provided an interesting perspective on the issue. Unfortunately there were a lot of other comments like

You know, I'd go into why your argument is offensively ironic, but it would be a greater gift if you just stopped embarrassing yourself.
and
Seriously, I'm drunk, and I don't want to be too hard on you. But John Stossel?
and
Please consider being an uninsured day laborer.
and
Oh - and John Stossel? Who will you be citing next - Bill O'Reilly? Stossel is a massive tool.
and
oh look, another attack on a weak argument for universal health care coverage.

are we ever going to get to your attacks against the good arguments? The threads over the last several days are full of really good and unrebutted arguments.The snark is entertaining but it tends to strengthen the arguments made in the original post.

If the only response you can offer to a post is snark and personal attacks that tends to show you can't come to the table with information to disprove the original post.

brooksfoe said

Cancer survival rates after diagnosis do appear to be higher in the US. I have read that this may be an artifact of earlier detection in the US, rather than more effective treatment; patients may not be living much longer, but they appear to survive longer with cancer because their cancers are caught early.
The bold emphasis is mine.


Nationalized healthcare proponents argue that the US healthcare system would be improved by nationalizing it which would improve primary healthcare.

Yet according to brooksfoe the US system already does a better job on primary care because it catches cancer before the nationalized healthcare systems do.

Since early detection of cancer generally occurs in a primary care setting the superior ability of the US system to detect cancer calls in to question the article of faith that nationalized systems.

1. Have better primary care

2. Nationalizing the US system would improve primary care

TJIT - yes, we can all cherry-pick comments, too. It's fun!

By the way, this is simply fallacious:

"In other words a bad healthcare system that equally distributed bad healthcare would be ranked higher then a system that had good, excellent healthcare but gave some people excellent healthcare and the rest good healthcare."

The American system doesn't do this. It is a system that has anywhere from excellent healthcare to no healthcare, and is distributed accordingly.

Take this to the private market. Compustore is rated as better than Netmart in the community, despite the fact that Netmart sells the best, most reliable equipment on the market with great technical support. How could this possibly be? Well, the store's inconveniently located with bad hours, for one. You can only shop there if you have a club card, which costs $100, and the store's financing is 20% higher than Compustore's (and also the only method of payment they accept besides cash). They carry the best equipment, but it's iffy as to whether or not it's in stock, and the alternatives are often highly unsatisfactory.

In other words, it's possible that you'll get a great deal when you go there. However, for a significant number of consumers, it's also possible that you'll get a bad deal or no deal or all, based largely on the luck of the draw.

But yes, let's get back to the You Don't Take My Silliness Seriously Hour, with special guests the I Have Links And Stuff Band.

Yet according to brooksfoe the US system already does a better job on primary care because it catches cancer before the nationalized healthcare systems do.

I believe brooksfoe's point is that early detection of cancer doesn't constitute doing a better job unless it makes superior treatment of that cancer possible. Prostate cancer's an example of this -- slowgrowing prostate cancer in an older man is likely to have no effect on his health in the time before he dies of something else. Additional detection of such cancers is going to make our stats look better, but won't actually extend anyone's life by a day.

I don't know that this is the full explanation for our superior cancer survival rates after detection, but it's certainly a confounding factor.

TJIJ: here's the thing, vis a vis the equality of distribution issue.

Equality of distribution, for example, is heavily weighted; so heavily weighted that quality of basic care suffers in comparison. That's why places like Morocco, the Dominican Republic, and Costa Rica clean our clocks.

You could argue that, actually, India has health care just as good as any rich country in the world; it's just that it's only available in Bombay and Delhi, at like three hospitals. Sure, only fifty thousand people can access it, in a country of 1.4 billion, but that's a matter of distribution, not quality.

This, obviously, would be an absurd thing to argue. But it's a limit case explaining why equality of distribution has to be a major factor in any measure of how good a country's health system is. And when you look at the distribution by wealth of health results in the US, you find that when you get into the lower income ranges, we stop looking like a first-world country. If you just took the top 30% of US wage-earners, we might look like a Scandinavian country. But if you take the bottom 30%, we start to look as bad as a lot of third-world countries. You could say, well, we Americans are willing to accept a lot of social inequality; that's a political choice. But you have to accept that at some point, "how good our health system is" is not about how good the best care at the best hospital is; it's about how good care is for the average guy. (And even if care is pretty good for that "average (or modal) guy", you have to think seriously about whether you might have a problem of a vanishing middle -- there may only be like 20 modal guys, and care could be great for the 150 million above him, and really awful for the 150 million below him. But the point is that distribution matters.)

Second: let's stipulate that US health care really isn't worse than Costa Rican. (A note, here: I have been treated numerous times by Cuban doctors, in West Africa, and it was a perfectly fine experience. I'm less inclined than McArdle to dismiss the quality of Latin American health care, for this reason. In the vast majority of cases, what you really need isn't a lot of fancy equipment; it's an experienced doc with basic meds, and the most important thing is just that the doc is there, and you can see him.) But this really isn't the point of the argument. The argument is really about whether US health care is better than French, German, Dutch, Japanese, British, Canadian, Swedish, and Italian health care (and Taiwanese, Swiss -- etc.). We spend almost double what virtually every other advanced economy spends on health care, per capita. And on so many indices, our health system performs worse than theirs do. To try and redirect attention to the US vs. Costa Rica, when the real question is the US vs. France, is just gamesmanship. And it's extremely provocative, because of the desperate seriousness of the issue.

Freddie said

What am I waiting for, really, from her or from any of you, is a description of what, exactly, the 47 million people in this country without insurance should do when they get sick.
If one followed the links provided in the original post one would find this statement
the 45 million figure is misleading. Thirty-seven percent of that group live in households making more than $50,000 a year, says the U.S. Census Bureau. Nineteen percent are in households making more than $75,000 a year; 20 percent are not citizens, and 33 percent are eligible for existing government programs but are not enrolled.
To summarize the 45 million includes

1. People who could afford health insurance but choose not to carry it

2. People who are eligible for public finance of their healthcare

3. People who are not citizens of the US

In other words the figure of 45 million people without health does not accurately reflect the number of people who can't afford healthcare.

In fact it grossly inflates the number of people who can't afford healthcare.

Besides the fact that it's written by renowned fabulist John Stossel, the linked article in the original post has one major problem, repeated here ad nauseum.

It presumes that we are to judge the ability of a healthcare system to deliver effective healthcare only by the quality of the care delivered, ignoring the care that's not delivered.

Applying this same standard, for instance, to policework: well, when police *do* investigate a crime in Citytown, they solve it faster than any other municipality in the state.

It's just that they don't investigate crimes in a particular area of town. But really, should that be held against them? Certainly not.


LOL- Thanks, Starscream. No personal attacks, per se, and some relative humor, an approach that sees the point in no vitreous humour.

May I gently point out that the part you quoted form TJIT says nothing about the American system. Quote it in context, with the compleate reference to the American system. Not a biggee, but makes it a bit more encompassing and could add a little more to your argument.

Still, TJIT's point was really refuted. The weighting was for 'distributed healthcare,' which is a definite strongpoint of socialized (single payer) medicine. It can mean the rich and poor, alike, get a dry wrap for that compound leg, making it rank high on the list in that category.(Aside: WHO describes their data coming from 'official' healthcare sources, which leaves out the sources for the rich and powerful in these single-payer countries, as in, "Do you really expect Fidel to receive the same healthcare opportunity as the sugar-cane harvester?" of course not, but it isn't in the WHO statistics, either)

What do the 50 million uninsured do when they need healthcare?

1) Most of them rarely need healthcare. They chose to be uninsured because they are young and healthy.

2) You may not be aware of this, but it is actually possible to pull out a credit card, checkbook, or cash and pay for it yourself. For routine medical care, this saves about an hour of paperwork - the costs of which ultimately comes out of your paycheck if you have employer-provided medical insurance. The only problem is if your doctor inflates his bills for the uninsured to make up for patients that stiff him, while letting insurance companies negotiate away that extra margin... But there are also doctors that will quietly give a large discount when you pay in full at the time of the visit.

3) If you are poor and uninsured, you qualify for Medicaid. It's not great, but it beats the worst of the British socialized medicine.

4) The people that genuinely have a problem are the ones that are neither poor nor rich, and are in the minority of under 65's that happen to need expensive treatment. AFAIK, they still get treated - but then the bill collectors will make them poor. It's a risk that group 1 thinks is worth taking.

As for me, for the last couple of years I have had employer-provided major medical insurance that only pays for a few things until we run up $5,000 in bills in one year, and a HSA that now has about that much in it, and is growing. So for procedures not covered by insurance, I just pull out the debit card and pay with tax-free dollars from the HSA. I may have a problem next year, because the plant here is closing, and I'm out of a job in February, but that HSA will provide a bit of a buffer as far as health care goes.

In the twenty years since I left the Air Force, between my wife and I there's been just one time our annual medical bills exceeded a few hundred dollars, when ny wife needed gall bladder surgery. Although we had "full coverage" type insurance back then, it still cost us $5,000 out of pocket, with the insurance paying about $10,000 more. If we'd had the HSA all along and had been putting the difference between what my employer paid for full coverage and the current major medical plan into it, I expect it would be over $50,000 by now and be earning enough interest to pay our routine bills and still be growing by itself.

...and John Stossel. Before he started coming out as someone who shined the light on the cockroaches in the cracks, I remember him as being one of the 'up and coming' bright journalists. My memory can be misleading of course, but incredibly birght comments like:

"Besides the fact that it's written by renowned fabulist John Stossel,..."

as well as (awa)

"Actually, Stossel's arguments are more or less garbage."

awa

"I do like you, but citing John Stossel's analysis of anything makes it very hard to take you seriously."

...don't sway me in the least.

Mr. Krueger seems to think all who say a kind word about Megan must be a libertarian. With that kind of misguided faith, you might as well end your comment with the tombstone (in a tongue-in-cheek kinda way).

One of the problems with a 'fact' or assertion from an opponent, is that is is more often than not distorted in the extreme, or if it works well enough, just a little - as long as it ends up supporting whatever it is your point is all about. I don't want to go back to some of the previous commenters and embarass them, but those who read this thread completely will see it clearly, at least until that predisposition filter starts ActingUp.

Megan writes:

"Now, personally, I don't really care about equality of distribution per se."

And that's that, folks. Why bother trying to argue against that? Does anyone really think that any argument proffered in the comments is going to make her think otherwise? That statement is her major premise and, lo and behold, consistent with her conclusions. If there were 300 million uninsured Americans, she would feel the same way, and she would still insist on the superiority of American healtcare, even though it wasn't being distrubuted at all among the population. So let's all just move on and find another writer to annoy with our comments.

Farewell,

Brady

If we'd had the HSA all along and had been putting the difference between what my employer paid for full coverage and the current major medical plan into it, I expect it would be over $50,000 by now and be earning enough interest to pay our routine bills and still be growing by itself.

Hey, that's impressive. Fifty grand. Guess how much money I have available to pay my emergency medical costs? As much as I need. Know how much it costs the employer? About eight thousand a year for family coverage for me, my wife and two kids. Guess what the deductible is? Zero dollars and zero cents.

Guess why? It's through my wife's job, she's Dutch, and it comes through the Netherlands, where insurance costs are half or less what they are in the US because of the superior way the health care market is organized. In fact, it even covers emergency care in the US when we travel there -- no copay.

Megan asks: Now, personally, I don't really care about equality of distribution per se. I don't care if Bill Gates gets super-awesome treatment; what I want to know is, are people suffering and dying from lack of care?

Yes Megan, at least 18,000 people die each year from lack of acess to health care. That works out to more than 50 a day. Does this bother your conscience any?

Here are some sites on the subject:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7404/1418-f

http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=10719

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/67342.php

http://www.aidsnews.org/2004/01/IOM.html

http://www.forward.com/articles/7233/

http://www.slate.com/id/2161736/


I do not see how Megan's take on health care can be considered Libertarian. Here is mine, and I have self described as a Libertarian for a long time.

On health care, a Libertarian would first ask: what is my rational self interest in this situation. Clearly it is to protect myself from disease and illness so I can live as long and as healthy as possible. Then I would look into how health works. Along the way I learn something that Megan seems never to have heard of: the germ theory of disease. Dr. Pasteur discovered that tiny microbes pass from person to person and attack their new host.

So, rationally I want to avoid catching a germ because it would make my life less pleasurable. There seem to be two solutions to this situation. One is to live like Howard Hughs, isolated from the world. But I can't do that, I have to work in the world.

Which tells me right up front that the health of others has a direct bearing on me. I need to be concerned that they will not pass something on to me. As we learned in the AIDS epidemic, what protects people and saves their lives is Universal Practices rigourously enforced. Always wear a condom. Have clean safe water available to everyone. Especially heated water so they can bath. Wash your hands every time you use the toilet.

A society where the people who handle your food don't have access to health care endangers those who do. A kitchen guy who is not feeling well should see a doctor. Under our system he will go to work, handle food and pass along hepatitis. Or typhoid. Megan sees these instances as 'anecdotes'. I see them as specific evidence of why everyone should have access to health care.

Not to provide beneficence to others, but to protect our very own selves. Universal health care is in my rational self interest.

Interestingly enough, one cancer (Kaposi's Sarcoma) is now shown to be clearly caused by a virus. Other cancers are showing a viral involvement. Which more or less shows that ascribing disease to 'lifestyle' or 'choices' is not particularly helpful.

falkoyn types: "No personal attacks, per se, and some relative humor, an approach that sees the point in no vitreous humour."

I think falkoyn meant "vitriolic humour" here, but who knows with this guy? falkoyn is the Norm Crosby of posters here.

The real question is whether or not we're getting maximal benefit for spending $2 to 2.5K more per capita on healthcare per individual, and the answer is pretty flatly "no".

Yes, but on the other hand, American physicians get to live in really nice suburbs. And healthcare-related personal bankruptcies are clearly being overtaken by dodgy mortgage-related personal bankruptcies.

Brady, full context of Megan's outrage-inducing quote:

Now, personally, I don't really care about equality of distribution per se. I don't care if Bill Gates gets super-awesome treatment; what I want to know is, are people suffering and dying from lack of care?

Greater inequality is only necessarily worse in a zero-sum world, where gains for the wealthy must correspond to losses for the non-wealthy. But our world doesn't work like that. Say an advanced gene therapy is developed that costs a million dollars. Even though the majority who can't afford it are no worse off than previously, a rating based on "inequality" would claim that they are.

As for the massive tool known as John Stossel and why using him as a source is rather absurd, here's a link with some other links. Make up your own minds, but I wouldn't use this clown as a source for anything.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=19&media_outlet_id=19

Anyway, it's interesting that the US has managed to achieve this excellence in cancer diagnosis and treatment with a health care system that is 45% government-funded.

Actually, this 45% looks to my eyes understated. Cancer cases tend to cluster pretty heavily among the elderly, so US cancer survival rates are surely at least partially a byproduct of America's own evil socialist healthcare plan, Medicare. In other words, American socialism is some of the best anywhere in the world.

Screw the WHO comparison and ranking... independent of the high homicide rates and fatal car accidents - the average health of an US middle class citizen is deteriorating?

I.e. it does not matter if China is catching up with the US economy or not - what matters if you are John Doe (and not a country) is if per capita real income (PPP) is increasing or not for the individual?

Most observers of the most recent US data claim that we in the West will for the first time in decades decrease our (US) life-expectancy compared to US data (and not international). The same holds true for Europe? And it is clearly NOT the case that Elvis could not afford proper health care - it is question of priorities in life and world view?

On a global level - we all face our challenges. For the first time in history there are more overweight and obese people than hungry ones. For the first time - the economic costs of eating too much are higher than the economic costs of undernourishment and disease.

Besides - who on earth would dare to improve health care for the poor.. if those poor belong to the richest 5% on the planet. Worse - why should anyone in the US try to help the "poor" if the "poor" themselves prove every day that they would not help improve conditions for anyBODY if they were in power - I am referring to how we all treat animals (99% do not see daylight, cannot move around, sleep in their own shit, are routinely raped and removed from their families, etc.)

no - I say we should all continue with our numbing pleasures and forget health care, the environment and animals. We have more important things to do - fight wars, trying to end them, the iPhone, bugging our phones, God and who knows what...?

If it were up to me (London School of Economics BSc, MSc) - I would simply scrap all subsidies on saturated fats (ca $20 billion per year for factory farms in the US). In the EU it is merely getting rid of CAP... I HOPE that the US will not continue along her historic reasoning: as long as Europe does not quit heroin - neither will we...

ALL nutritionists in the US and EU claim that we consume at least 3 times TOO MUCH saturated fats and cholesterol (meat and milk - insulin and lactose are worse than white sugar for cancer and diabetes?)

Not only would this be the BEST free-market measure one can take in order to improve health care - but also the environment.

PLEASE - do not invest $1,5 billion in clean energy of into health care.. get rid of the $20 billion market distorting subsidies on cholesterol!! Preventable heart disease has been on the rise since the advent of factory farms and our addiction to the red and white. Preventable heart diseases causes more deaths than all 5 following causes (cancer & accidents) combined.

If were to find a cure for ALL cancers today - we could increase our life-expectancy by 3 years. If we decrease saturated fats consumption to say 10% of all calories - the American Heart Association estimated that we could gain 7 years or the equivalent in economic productivity?

And don't forget that the major driver behind our exploding health care costs is also the worst environmental polluter we know of...

In both cases - extreme government/human intervention (as always when it comes to the economy and ecology) is the major problem. IF we find arguments to continue with our market distortions - we should AT LEAST subsidize prevention? we should at least subsidize "healthy" things and not "drugs"? What about pouring $20 billion a year into organic fruits and vegetables?

I guess our budget does not have room for that? Bugging our phones to protect us from terrorists and pouring tax money into factory farms has left us with nothing left for making us healthier, happier and saving the resources of our children?

What does Clint Eastwood eat? Anybody?

Nationalized healthcare proponents argue that the US healthcare system would be improved by nationalizing it which would improve primary healthcare. Yet according to brooksfoe the US system already does a better job on primary care because it catches cancer before the nationalized healthcare systems do.

No, as has been pointed out, the heavy concentration of cancers among older people very likely means that America's good results in this area flow directly from its effective, lavishly-funded government healthcare program, Medicare.

It would be interesting to see how the cancer survival rate for Americans under 60 stacks up against the under 60 citizens of other rich world nations. My guess is the heavy presence of non-insured in the under 60 US population would yield results a lot less satisfactory for the United States.

Say an advanced gene therapy is developed that costs a million dollars. Even though the majority who can't afford it are no worse off than previously, a rating based on "inequality" would claim that they are. - Brian

Brian, a lot hinges on how often such "non-zero-sum" cases arise, versus how often things actually turn out to be rather zero-sum indeed.

For example: are Congolese villagers worse off because of the invention of Viagra? No, of course not, one might argue; at ten bucks a pill they can't afford it, but they're no worse off than previously. But Congolese villagers would prefer that pharmaceutical companies spend their time and money working on affordable anti-malaria drugs, not erectile dysfunction drugs for rich Westerners. Researchers and labs who might have been spending the past 10 years working to fight malaria were instead working on getting old guys hard. So, yes, they are worse off because of the invention of Viagra.

brooksfoe writes: "Researchers and labs who might have been spending the past 10 years working to fight malaria were instead working on getting old guys hard."

Now that's funny. Get rid of Ambinder and give brooksfoe a space here.

cs notes that non-health care related deaths in the year he quotes as 54.6/1000. Unfortunately, although cs states that the difference between mortality and lifespan is understood, the argument put forth that the greater number of deaths on the U.S. from said causes is NOT a real factor in lifespan statistics is incorrect.

In the second half of the 21st century the two greates factors behind the lifespan gains in the U.S. were Armistice Day, ending the carnage of WWII, and the institution of vaccines against childhood illnesses such as smallpox and polio. It is not the mortality in a given year that affects lifespan, it is the age at death. NOT losing hundreds of thousands of young men to wartime deaths and NOT losing hundreds of thousands of children to childhood illnesses means also NOT losing those years of lifespan. So whereas 54.6 may represent only 6.2% of deaths in a given year, it is the loss of years to be lived by the relatively youthful victims of those deaths that affects lifespan statistics. If the average age at death of this group is 25 this statsistic would have a dramatic effect on aggregate lifespan.

I am not a statistician, but I wonder if controlling for non-healthcare related deaths wouldn't bring the U.S. lifespan that extra year that is so distressing to the WHO, etc.

Do you post these articles as flame-bait deliberately to drive up site traffic, or are you just an exceptionally callous person? In a time when almost everyone recognizes serious faults in US health care, why are you wasting time on statistical quibb