National health care advocates are feeling pretty s-chipper

Number one item in this post on Graeme Frost:

1) I told y'all this was going to happen. Maybe next time you'll listen, hmmm?

Weirdly triggered angry email from liberal commenters, who offered this as an example of my tendency to make snotty dismissals of liberals. This is weird because, of course, I was talking to conservatives, in re my earlier post on the general political unwiseness of attacking programs that give money to cute children.

Meanwhile, conservatives think I'm nuts, and also maybe a closet liberal, because I think that the battle over S-Chip--whatever the merits of the case--is doing more harm than good to the righteous crusade against government-run health care. But I'm not the only one who thinks this; so do the advocates of national health care. Or at least one of them, anyway:

Granted, MoveOn's support can be a mixed blessing, as the critics of the war found out after the infamous "Betray-us" ad. And, let's face it, health care may never be the kind of galvanizing issue that war is. But the fact that Bush's S-CHIP veto is already sparking protests suggests this may be the beginning of something new--and, for the supporters of universal coverage, something promising. By galvanizing universal health care's advocates, Bush's veto might do a lot more to make universal health care likely than expanding S-CHIP ever would have.

Comments

The cons and the cheapskates may be able to put universal health care off for a few more years, but it's coming - and more and more corporate voices are going to be calling for it. The horror stories about insurance companies raping sick people (no apology for the metaphor, since it's apt) are multiplying, and even some Repiglicans are starting to worry about the future of health care.

Cons and cheapskates are welcome to be part of the discussion if they want - or they can just get run over. The rest of us no longer care what they do, since their collective incompetence is no longer in question.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 11, 2007 3:17 PM

Having 10 year olds stand up and lead your debate for you is a disturbing trend that is picking up steam. There has been a series of commercials where children are spouting the talking points for AARP and then this S-chip thing.

Anyone who allows their child into the world of politics should have their head examined. It is not for the timid.

Second, listening to the response we have had, the next step is to have a 9 year do the rebuttal.

Is the only way we can have a discussion is if we hide behind children?

Posted by Blaine | October 11, 2007 3:53 PM

Apologies for the gramar on the previous post.

Second, listening to the response we have had on the S-chip, the next step is to have a 9 year old do the rebuttal.

Posted by Blaine | October 11, 2007 4:09 PM

Kids have health care. The needy already have health care. The U.S. is not a socialist state. The government caused the problem with health care in America by over socializing medicine to the extent it is not completive, and we want to exacerbate the problem? U.S. Capitalism refers to an economic system in which the means of production are all owned and operated for profit, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy. It is the right of individuals and groups of individuals acting as "legal persons" or corporations to trade capital goods, labor, land and money (see finance and credit). See http://www.InteliOrg.com/

Posted by Dr Coles | October 11, 2007 4:18 PM

Dr Coles writes: "The government caused the problem with health care in America by over socializing medicine to the extent it is not completive, and we want to exacerbate the problem?"

Hoo boy.

Yeah, all we have to do is get rid of all governmental involvement with health care (except for limiting malpractice law suits, of course) and the market will (in short order) result in a Golden Age of Health Care.

Apparently what we need in order to be the most "completive" nation possible is to have whole lot more dead poor people.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 11, 2007 4:28 PM

Your "I told you this would happen" post was ambiguous; I'm pretty sure you had also already said in an earlier post that Democrats shouldn't focus on promoting programs for kids because it was a cheap way of gaining irrational sympathy. So it was easy to misread your post as a reference to the predictability of a right-wing blogosphere attack on the kid(s) showcased in promoting the policy, and the tone seemed to be saying "it serves you liberals right".

You weren't saying that, at that point, but you do seem to be generally confused about the relative moral valence of using a kid to present the benefits of a program aimed at kids -- a hoarily routine practice perfected by Ronald Reagan 25 years ago, working from a template established by the first Irish NYC pol who ever kissed a baby, back in approximately 1842 -- versus deploying an oppo research team against a 12-year-old. You have this persistent "Ah, politics is just a cesspool, what do you expect" attitude which effectively grants carte blanche to right-wingers to engage in behavior which has simply never been acceptable in public discourse in the US, knowing that whatever outrage they provoke will be tempered by vague assertions that "liberals do it do". We don't, obviously. We don't go around digging for evidence that the Snowflake Babies' adoptive parents are actually abusive tax frauds, or whatever.

Posted by brooksfoe | October 11, 2007 4:35 PM

"Meanwhile, conservatives think I'm nuts, and also maybe a closet liberal, because I think that the battle over S-Chip--whatever the merits of the case--is doing more harm than good to the righteous crusade against government-run health care."

No way! Crucifying the family of a white, middle-class small business owner is just what the Republican party needs to sew up the next election.

How come they didn't announce that Wile E. Coyote took over when Rove left?

If I were cynical (ok, even more cynical) I would think that the Democrats intentionally picked a family that would have questions about their S-CHIP qualifications just so the right wing would react the way they did.

Posted by Njorl | October 11, 2007 5:06 PM

Njorl writes: "Crucifying the family of a white, middle-class small business owner is just what the Republican party needs to sew up the next election."

Yeah, they're one big pack of geniuses, huh? I'm expecting Dumbya to nuke Iran any day now, followed by Dick Cheney announcing that he has the world's largest collection of lesbian snuff films, and Condi Rice comparing waterboarding to baptism. Nothing these people could do would surprise me, unless one of them displayed an iota of human decency.

And that's sure not gonna happen.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 11, 2007 5:15 PM

Well we now know who the anti American politicians are. The politicians who are against the American people. And in it JUST FOR THEM-SELF. They are the ones that voted against Americas kids. And for the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and doctors. That have been raping the American people, and even the little children, and babies of America with abusive, injurious, mutilating, murderous health care.

Each of you should find out if your politicians voted for, or against the children of America on September 25, 2007. By voting for, or against SCHIP.

A bipartisan majority of both the House, and Senate voted for SCHIP, and for the kids. But those that voted against the kids allowed Bush to veto the bill. As he promised. This is outrageous. And each of you must act NOW!

The kids need you to fight for them. And you need to fight for your-self. And for your family's to get SCHIP, and HR 676 passed ASAP. Now that we know who many of the obstacles are. We can really get down to work. You can google "congressional vote record" to get a list of all the politicians that voted against Americas kids, and who will vote against HR. 676 Universal National Health Care For All Americans. See (http://thomas.loc.gov/home/rollcallvotes.html, http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress)

These are the politicians that all of you, republican, or democrat need to aggressively start working to replace. Either by supporting strong candidates for their office who fully support SCHIP, and HR 676. Or by running against them your-self. As I have said before. Don't worry that you may not be good enough. Anyone that supports SCHIP, and HR 676 Universal National Health Care For All is a better person than any politician that doesn't support them will ever be. No matter how big their name may be. Forget your fears, and your ego. This is bigger than any individual or group. Run if you must. And run hard for your-self, your fellow Americans and the health, and life of the little children. Take care of your self. And be tough.

It may be that some of these politicians will have a change of heart. And will support SCHIP, and HR 676 Universal National Health Care for All Americans. They will get a chance to prove it. We all make mistakes some times. Hope for the best. But aggressively prepare for the worst. So you will be certain to take them out if they don't support SCHIP, and HR 676. I am appealing to everyone. Young, and old rich, or poor. Whatever your back ground. As long as you understand the crisis. And will support SCHIP, and HR 676 with your whole heart. Then do it. And if there are several of you that run. And someone other than you that supports SCHIP, and HR 676 looks like they will have a better chance of a win than you. Drop out at the best strategic time for them. And throw your wholehearted support behind them for SCHIP, and HR 676.

Every American needs to do every thing they can to put maximum pressure on these politician's that voted against the kids health care. And see to it that they don't have a snow balls chance in hell of reelection unless they change. And wholeheartedly support passage of SCHIP, and HR 676 Universal health Care For All. There are many things you can do. And if you are creative you will think of more things you can do.

Some of the things you can do now. Is to identify which candidates can run against them that will fully support passage of SCHIP, and HR 676. If you cant find one. Then you must step up to the plate. And run your-self. Or find some people that will. Run if you must. And run hard.

Everyone who's politicians voted for SCHIP should start contacting their neighbors in the states, and districts that voted against SCHIP. Use the information above to get the information on the politicians states, and districts. Then start giving your neighbors in these districts a call. Write them a letter. Or send them a email if you have an address. Contact their newspapers. And online message board's. You can use google, and yahoo directory to lookup names, address, and phone numbers of your neighbors in other states.

Then contact them. And in a neighborly way. Let them know that their politician "by name" voted against health care for the kids. And because of that Bush was able to veto a bipartisan bill to assure health care for many of your kids. Ask them to contact there politician and put pressure on them to pass SCHIP, and HR 676 when they come up again. And to make them veto proof from Bush. And to please stay on top of these two issues SCHIP, and HR 676 Universal National Health Care For All. And keep the pressure on. And keep the pressure building. And to please vote for the candidate in the next election that will support SCHIP, and HR 676. And to vote against any politician that will not support SCHIP, and HR 676.

Also contact your family, and friends in these other states. And ask them to contact their politicians that voted against the kids. contact the National media. And tell them that you want them to broadcast the vote for the kids live. Scheduled for October 18, 2007. Call the medias sponsors and tell thing you expect the media to broadcast the vote for the Kids live. especially NPR, and PBS. Do every thing in your power to focus the total attention of America on the vote for the kids. Talk it up at work, and at your job. Unless you work for the drug, insurance, hospital industry, or doctors. Your employer should be very supportive of SCHIP, and HR 676 Universal National Health Care For ALL. Medical Care is killing American business.

Ask everyone that can to stop what they are doing. And watch, or listen to the vote. Ask your employers, restaurants. The sports bars. Every body to stop what they are doing and tune in to the vote for the kids. If you are driving tune in. And turn on your car lights for the kids. And if you can do it safely pull over, and honk your horns for the kids. Do every think you can. Pullout all the stops. To make sure that Washington knows you will be watching this vote with vengeance in mind. If they fail the kids again.

If you need any motivation at all. I have posted long lists of horrific truths about the disgraceful state of American health care. But my space here is limited. So I will give you just one of the many horrible facts about health care in America. And I am warning you. Brace your-self.

"This current generation of children is the first generation of children in the history of America who's life expectancy is less than that of their parents. And they have already started dieing at an alarming rate." Shocking!! Horrific, Catastrophic.

We must do everything we can to save Americas children. And the American people. You can do this America. No matter how much money the insurance, pharmaceutical, hospitals, and doctors line the politicians pockets with. This fight is for the kids, and for your life. It's on each of your shoulders individually. You must not fail America. You must not fail.

Pickup the sword. Hold it tight. And use it. :-(

Posted by jacksmith | October 11, 2007 6:07 PM

Here I see HR 676 being touted again. HR 676 is not the way to fix a broken system. I have posted extensively on my blog about why 676 will NOT work, period. The system is broken, and needs to be fixed, of that I do not argue. It is the how to fix the system that I differ. Do I present an alternative? YES, I absolutely do present a much better alternative. To see what is wrong with HR 676 and what I believe is a better fix, see the following link to my blog post re:676. But please, only go read it if you have an open mind. I am tired of people who just say "sorry, you're wrong and I'm right" with no basis to back up their argument. I have at least spent the time and done my homework on HR 676 to take it point by point and spell out what is wrong with it.

http://martygrn.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/hr-676-and-its-problems/

Posted by Marty G., RN-PICU | October 11, 2007 10:33 PM

Crucifying the family of a white, middle-class small business owner is just what the Republican party needs ...

... to demonstrate that they're against government programs in general in general and not just those allegedly for the poor or racial minorities.

It looks like conservatives are being criticized, not for any actual violations of principle, but for violating leftist fantasies about what conservativism is about.

BTW, what's stopping state governments from offering state health care? I mean besides the fact that voters tend to disapprove of anything in that line they can actually compare with alternatives.

Posted by Joseph Hertzlinger | October 11, 2007 11:57 PM

Joseph Hertzlinger says: "It looks like conservatives are being criticized, not for any actual violations of principle, but for violating leftist fantasies about what conservativism is about."

After observing unblocked conservative rule for 6 years there is no longer any need for "fantasies about what conservatism is about." It's about rampant war and corruption and raping American values on behalf of scumbags.

For some odd reason the 2006 election showed that Americans have had more than enough conservatism. The 2008 elections will move even further away from your "traditional values," which are 100% horse manure.

Enjoy the ride.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | October 12, 2007 2:05 AM

No way! Crucifying the family of a white, middle-class small business owner is just what the Republican party needs to sew up the next election.

Granted, it may not be a great strategic move, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. When you whore your kid out for use in socialist propaganda, you deserve to be crucified.

Posted by Brandon Berg | October 12, 2007 5:29 AM

I wonder if Brandon Berg or some other libertarian/conservative posting in this thread could define "socialist". To me the word means public ownership or public control. In this definition the medical system used by the armed forces is socialist, but the new Massachusetts universal medical insurance plan is not. Obviously, this is not the way Mr. Berg would define it, and I am interested in his definition.

Posted by Stan | October 12, 2007 9:45 AM

Sometimes I don't get Megan. Apparently she supports the gigantic Democrat increase in the SCHIP program because it is politically unwise to be against programs for children. Fine. But it is also politically unwise to be against programs for grandma and grandpa. And yet I don't recall Megan saying anything like "Bush's Medicare prescription drug program is awesome because being against prescription drugs for grandma and grandpa would be politically unwise." As I recall, she called the Bush prescription drug program "fiscally lunatic".

So, which is it Megan? Should we be for every fiscally irresponsible giveaway we can think up for every sypathetic group we can ever find, merely because, hey, it might make the politicians look bad by saying no to those groups? Or should we try to stand on fiscal principles, even if that seems unpopular?

Because, as I see it, when Bush panders to politically popular groups by giving them big giveaways (like Medicare Part D), Megan criticizes it. And when Bush refuses to pander to politically popular groups by refusing to sign big giveaways (like expanding SCHIP), Megan also criticizes it. Which is it, Megan?

Posted by Al | October 12, 2007 11:26 AM

Al,
Medicare part D was objectionable because it was a giveaway to health insurance and pharmaceutical companies. True, it was also a giveaway to senior citizens, but that was politically inevitable. The corporate giveaway was something the Republicans decided they could get away with under cover of pandering to the AARP.

Posted by Njorl | October 12, 2007 1:53 PM

Health care in America is a disgrace. Whether you have insurance or not.

We rank # 37 in quality of health care for all. Insured, and non-insured.

You have to take the profit motive out of medical care.

It's the profit motive that causes millions of Americans to be poisoned by DOCTORS with to many toxic, and unnecessary drugs.

It's the profit motive that causes DOCTORS to injure, and kill millions of patients with premature deployments of unproven medical devices, and drugs.

It's the profit motive that causes millions of patients to be injured, and killed with unnecessary, invasive diagnostic test, and surgery's.

It's the profit motive that allows 47-89 million Americans to have no health insurance. Because it's un-affordable.

It's the profit motive that lets 18-30 thousand Americans die for lack of affordable medical care each year.

It's the profit motive that bankrupts millions of Americans just because they get sick.

It's the profit motive that leaves millions of Americas children unprotected by easily accessible health care.

It's the profit motive that leaves parents afraid to let their children go out to play, or participate in sports for fear they will get hurt and need costly medical care.

It's the profit motive that lets a healthy child die from something as simple as a tooth ache that gets infected and destroys their brain.

HR 676 is the way to go.

In the US you have to watch out for doctors trying to sell you on the most profitable treatments for the doctor. And their stock portfolio. And their drug company kick backs. You the patient are just their B**CH. A cash COW! A peace of meat!

Especially if you have so-called good insurance. That they and their colleagues can milk dry. People in government programs like Medicare have some protection from civil service oversight. That is why doctors hate Medicare so much. They can't get away with as much abuse of patients. As they can with private insurance.

This crap does not happen in Canada. Because their doctors do what is accepted as best, and safest for the patient. Not what is most profitable for the doctor.

Before you or your loved ones get sick. sickocure.org michaelmoore.com

And don't just trust me. Get on the internet. Look it up for your-self. It's a no-brainer. Then act aggressively. Get congress moving. And get HR 676 passed.

People, you are all at risk every day of your life now. Whether you have the finest full coverage health insurance. Or no insurance at all.

All other developed countries have Universal Health Care. That is the best, and only thing that works. You could not have a worse. Or more horrific system than we currently have in the US.

In anticipation of coming changes in our health care system. Thousands of patients are being killed at a fevered pitch. And millions injured, and poisoned with unnecessary medications, medical procedures, and surgery's. In an orgy of greed, and profiteering a head of proposed changes to our current disgraceful health care system.

I advise you to be careful of taking any recommended medical care at this time without doing your home work. And getting a good independent 2nd, or 3rd opinion. Especially if you have so-called good insurance coverage.

This current generation of children. Are the first generation in the history of America who's life expectancy is less than that of there parents. Words cannot express the monumental catastrophe this is for America.

America is facing extinction by greed. And our enemy's are laughing their A** off. They fear that we will pass HR. 676 single payer National Health Care For All. Because they know that will make America very strong, and competitive in the world again. They are hoping we fail. Just like the pharmaceutical, insurance, hospitals, doctors, and some politicians are hoping we fail. They are all traitors if they don't wake up and get on the side of the American people.

Posted by jacksmith | October 12, 2007 5:21 PM

How could anyone vote against health care for the kids. The health of Americas children is in a crisis.

This current generation of children. Are the first generation in the history of America who's life expectancy is less than that of there parents. Words cannot express the monumental catastrophe that this is for America. Add to that. Life expectancy has been dropping in America dramatically over the past years. At one time. American women had the longest life expectancy in the world. They were #1. Now they rank #42 with the rest of America. And getting worse. And some people still want to quibble about the need for expanded health care for kids. And the need for HR 676 Universal National Health Care For All. Give me a break. How corrupt, stupid, greedy, and short sighted can you be.

America is facing extinction by greed. And our enemy's are laughing their A** off at us. It's midnight in America. And we have no time to loose. Get SCHIP, and HR 676 pass as fast as you can. See sickocure.org, Michaelmoore.com And let every politician know that the HALL OF SHAME!! awaits anyone who votes against the kids in this health care crisis. And it will be the duty of every American to let their constituents know that they voted against the kids. No excuses.

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