A New York barista is apparently resisting the "skinny" label for a non-fat, sugar-free latte, on the grounds that it will make her fat customers and employers feel bad.
This seems painfully reminiscent of the movement in Britain in the early 1990s to outlaw black garbage bags because . . . wait for it . . . this might convey to those of African descent that people thought they were garbage.
If you are under the impression that others believe you are a garbage bag, or a latte, then you should not be hanging about in coffee bars. You should be in an institution, where we can work on bringing you out of your delusional state.
Notably, even the fat acceptance commenter on the thread seems to think that this is totally ridiculous.
I've often heard people order "skinny" lattes in Starbucks and similar places. It's not like the term is something new and different.
I've always ordered my lattes or related drinks "skinny". Without fail, Starbucks always refers to it as, "non-fat, no-whip".
I asked my Starbucks folks why, and they tell me that it's the way Starbucks tells them to do it, to avoid insulting anyone.
Whether they're just joshing me - I dunno, but that's the way it's been for me at ever Starbucks since I started going to them in the late 90's
I'm skinny. How come no one ever considers MY feelings when they go around naming stuff?
I'm not fat, dammit, I'm a Large Diameter American!
This seems painfully reminiscent of the movement in Britain in the early 1990s to outlaw black garbage bags because . . . wait for it . . . this might convey to those of African descent that people thought they were garbage.
Given that:
1) The "skinny" term is obviously intended to associate the product with the weight of the customer, while it would take some rather far-fetched imagination to link the color of a garbage bag to one's skin.
2) No one is "outlawing" anything, just offering what she believes is a beneficial suggestion through the company's mechanism for doing exactly that.
...I wouldn't say it's reminiscent, let alone "painfully" so.
Is this why I can't order a small coffee, but always get a "tall" instead - to make diminutive customers feel larger?
JSinger wrote: The "skinny" term is obviously intended to associate the product with the weight of the customer
Personally, I never thought of a coffee cup silouhette as being a Rorschach ink blot, but there you go.
"Skinny" is a simple reference to the fact that the resulting drink has reduced fat content. A person of any diameter might choose to order one for any number of reasons.
...this is the sort of thing why I call myself a liberal-but-not-really. Sigh.
Can I just pound my head on the wall now?
Wasn't there something about some eco-group that made a fuss about keeping the name of the community "Fishkill"? Or am I remembering something from Snow Crash?
The more you think you've found the upper edge of parody, the more you discover the Proverbial Idiots have already gone beyond it.
"Skinny" is a simple reference to the fact that the resulting drink has reduced fat content.
Thank you, but I did realize that. The pun "skinny" (to the degree that it rises to the level of pun) is based on using the opposite of the adjective "fat" to refer to the absence of the noun "fat", which is underlaid with the association* between the former and the latter. Black garbage bags are black for reasons having nothing to do with any such whimsy.
* Validity of that association aside -- I have no interest in arguing either side of that one.
I think this may be good business--when I was a fat kid, I indeed was VERY concerned about seemingly trivial things like you mention--I didn't even like eating in public (and I was 12!). I can easily imagine that some obese patrons might find the prospect of ordering a "skinny" latte somewhat embarrassing.
This barista may be carving herself out a niche in the market for self-conscious fatties.
Wait -- what about those of use who like our latte with a skin on top? What are WE supposed to order??
More labels for people with too much time on their hands to crusade against:
-the "skinny post" pass receiver route in American football;
-the "thin client" model of client/server computing;
-"Fat Tuesday" as an accepted synonym for the Mardi Gras holiday, even though it is a literal translation;
-"Slim Jim" snacks (and car theft/entry devices);
Full disclosure: I am one of those LDAs
I always assumed "skinny" referred to the cow. Now I'm upset.
I'm not sure about getting rid of the term 'skinny', but it seems much more reasonable than getting rid of black garbage bags.
Perhaps a better comparison to the garbage bag thing is the ban (at a shopping mall in Australia, I believe) on the mall Santa Claus saying "ho ho ho", because some women might believe that they were being insulted.
"I'm not sure about getting rid of the term 'skinny', but it seems much more reasonable than getting rid of black garbage bags."
The black bin bag story is actually a myth, put out by the 'The Sun' newspaper in the 1980's during its 'loony left' phase, when it would attack certain labour councils in london by basically making up 'political correctness gone mad' stories.
"Perhaps a better comparison to the garbage bag thing is the ban (at a shopping mall in Australia, I believe) on the mall Santa Claus saying "ho ho ho", because some women might believe that they were being insulted."
Another myth.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/hohoho.asp
RE: "non-fat, no-whip"
But won't that offend the whip-wielding customers in the group?
RE: "non-fat, no-whip"
But won't that offend the whip-wielding customers in the group?
As a consumer who is non-fat, but pro-whip, I plan to write my Congressman.
Good thing we don't have enough time to think about this: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/us/politics/24voting.html?_r=1&ei=5094&en=298fa45bfb12e669&hp=&ex=1159070400&partner=homepage&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
after all, that might be a real drag, and require an extra ration of Instant Smile..
This blog reminds me of a garbage bag -- one with holes at both ends.
I'm surprised McArdle didn't use the term "bin liner" instead of garbage bag, since she's fond of pretending to be English. Perhaps that's because she just made the story up.
Thanks, Kenny! I'm glad to hear that neither of those stories were serious.
As kenny points out, there is an insatiable appetite on the political right for stories which purport to illustrate the absurd excesses to which any reform movement supposedly leads. I think the first time I encountered this trope was in fifth grade, when a fellow classmate sagely explained to me that the Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution would ban separate boys' and girls' bathrooms. Since ninth grade, when I learned that the ERA would not, in fact, have forced men to pee sitting down, I have become increasingly skeptical of such stories.
As for the barista, anything which would force Starbucks to stop abusing the English language is OK by me. Though the term "barista" is actually a useful addition to the language, for food service employees who can't be termed "waiters" since they don't actually wait on anyone. It'd be better if one could apply it to counter staff at fast food joints too.
Interestingly, Starbucks vocabulary is almost impossible to employ non-ironically. To say "barista" is to sneer at the corporate world: it connotes the masking of low-end franchise service employment with grand European-tinged titles as part of a corporate communications strategy to dirempt both the employee's own consciousness of being an assembly-line worker, and the customer's consciousness that he is purchasing an assembly-line object from someone working a shit job. The same irony pervades the names of the retail objects: "grande", "skinny" -- they pretend to connote either foreignness or slang quirkiness, to distance the things from their routine, mass-manufactured nature. One employs Starbucks vocabulary as one might use the language from "1984"; one says "barista" as one might say "Ministry of Love", with a tinge of contempt for the inventors of the term, and of empathy for those who labor under it.
Is this why I can't order a small coffee, but always get a "tall" instead - to make diminutive customers feel larger?
Posted by Peter Bautista
Actually, you can. Just order a "short" coffee. I've done it. You get a cup shorter than a "tall."
http://www.slate.com/id/2133754/
I'm overweight, and perfectly comfortable that way... and I'd have to say, that if a person is comfortable in their (fat) skin, the word "skinny" should not be a problem. The word is only going to make you cringe if you think there's something wrong with the way you are.
I sympathize with the poster who was an overweight 12-year-old, but I think the solution is to build up the self-confidence of overweight 12-year-olds. (Which is perfectly consistent with encouraging healthy eating and exercise- in fact a fat kid who feels good about herself is probably more likely to exercise.)
Minor point- I've seen a lot of overweight people at Obama campaign events, despite the fact that Sen. Obama has publically described himself as "skinny" (which he is). Obviously, he hasn't offended his fat supporters...
Here in DC, we used to have a coffee shop named Sparky's on 14th street.
They had a sign saying "No Starbonics" which they actually enforced. My friend asked for a 'grande' and was told "we don't have that".
As someone who was once extremely thin, I have never been called 'skinny' without an underlying imputation of weakness and malnutrition. This New York barista should just call her fatty and sugary lattes "full-strength" if she wants to avoid controversy.
Wait a second here ... so an at-will hire of a private-sector corporation is changing the way she does business to satisfy the customer?
Now I may not be a smart man, but I know what capitalism is.
And the above seems to be a perfect example of it! Why exactly are the right-wing people here complaining?
Smacks of right-wing hypocrisy to me - if the market chooses something culturally favored by the left, something must be wrong with the culture or the market.
Hell, I'm happy about this, and I'm a hair to the right of the Old Testament.
SAM,
I'd pretty much be with you, but there's nothing in that article that actually mentions any customers complaining. Just the employee complaining, and reporting that her fellow employees also think it's a dumb idea.
That said, having read TFA, it doesn't sound like she's entirely focused on the supposed offensiveness of the term, that's just one of several reasons why she's saying it's a dumb idea.
This New York barista should just call her fatty and sugary lattes "full-strength" if she wants to avoid controversy.
There would be precedent of a sort for that usage: cigarettes with high tar and nicotine content are sometimes advertised as "full flavor."
Thank you, but I did realize that. The pun "skinny" (to the degree that it rises to the level of pun) is based on using the opposite of the adjective "fat" to refer to the absence of the noun "fat", which is underlaid with the association* between the former and the latter. Black garbage bags are black for reasons having nothing to do with any such whimsy.
Yeah, they're probably black in order to obscure the content of their character, or maybe to associate them with dirty, low-prestige work.
Right?
I mean, it's no more of a stretch than what you're proposing. Sometimes a coffee cup is just a coffee cup, and all that.
Personally, I can think of a good reason for not ordering anything "skinny" -- it's a way to not try to look pseudo-hip. Only insecure people go around using that sort of forced slang.
And by the way, the correct pronounciation according to every principle of language evolution is Vedge-En, not "veeeegun". The only reason the V-gun business took off is because it allows for V-guns to identify who is or isn't in their insecurity cult.
Screw it. I drink tea, anyway.