The vegans and many veggies I know hate gelatin, assuming that they're informed about it, unless it's made from, say, agar agar.
Powdered sugar cane sometimes uses bone meal to keep it fluffy. (the linked article says "charcoal made from bone meal used in the filtration process", but I'm not sure how that would work. Can bones be used for charcoal?
Last night my girlfriend made me salmon purchased at the ever-virtuous Trader Joe's. In describing the meat, she referred to it in passing as "organic salmon". I'm sure I'm missing some detail of salmon packaging or preservatives, etc., but what salmon isn't organic? Salt water salmon isn't farmed, thus is not (dun dun duuuuun!) genetically modified or fed hormones. I mean, I believe when you go to the butcher and buy a piece of salmon, what you're getting is essentially a piece of fish, cut off the thing that came out of the ocean, which is by definition organic. Unless the word "organic" has suddenly taken on more metaphysical connotations, which would not surprise me at all.
I know this is not directly related to veganism, but I feel it's in the same ballpark.
Almost any organic matter can be used for charcoal. The basis of creating charcoal is to heat something organic to a combustion temperature in the presence of limited oxygen. Water is driven out and the organic carbon/hydrogen structures are dissociated, but with inadequate oxygen available to complete the reaction, the material is converted to primarily dense carbon structures (carbonized). The resulting substance is then comparable to anthracitic coal.
Peter,
Presumably your GF meant "wild" as opposed to "ocean farmed". Lots of salmon is raised in netted pens in ocean bays; the green objection to it has to do with overcrowding, the source & type of the fishfood, and nutrient contamination of the water surrounding the pens.
"Wild" means netted or line-fished in the open ocean.
anony-mouse - Okay, apparently there is bone charcoal. I guess my thinking was that there wasn't much carbon in bones, and I associated charcoal with carbon.
Bone char, also known as bone black or animal charcoal, is a granular black material produced by calcinating animal bones: the bones are heated to high temperatures in the absence of air to drive off volatile substances. It consists mainly of calcium phosphate and a small amount of carbon.
the recent issue of the journal put out by vegetarian resource group dealt with this- its not online yet. it lists the brands that use bone char to whiten sugar - & if vegetarians want to play it safe otheir only option is to buy usda organic.
I think "organic" for salmon means farmed, but according to some set of standards (which I have the impression are kind of bullshit in the case of salmon specifically.) If it were wild, they'd say wild -- "organic" means "farmed, but not like those fish farms".
Alcohol is generally made without stolen baby cow milk, blood or chicken babies. I am sure you know the famous PETA ad where they claim that beer is healthier than milk. There are a few strange exceptions...
The London Guinness Communications Centre responded to a query:
All Guinness brands are free from animal matter. However, isinglass, which is a by-product of the fishing industry, is used as a fining agent for settling out suspended matter in the vat. The isinglass is retained in the floor of the vat but it is possible that minute quantities might be carried over into the beer.
Guinness therefore depends on what kind of vegan you are. There are those vegans who are 1000% anal about everything (not me). A good Bombay Sapphire Gin is definitely vegan.
Then there are those who know that if they were to cut most animal products and the world would follow - there would be no animal resources left to be used at all soon anyway.
In other words - it does not matter if you have a label fetish or not - if you go vegan cold turkey or step by step... the destination is the journey.
The only thing that'd be sad is if you moved away from a vegan lifestyle. What is wonderful is when you move towards it...
Hmmm... Animal-origin charcoal makes it non-vegan... Then maybe they might worry about other non-vegan supplies used in manufacture, such as leather shoes worn by the workers, or the simple fact that "exploited animals" (people) were used to produce it.
You can easily get twisted in knots if you try to follow this (mis)logic rigorously.
Then maybe they might worry about other non-vegan supplies used in manufacture, such as leather shoes worn by the workers, or the simple fact that "exploited animals" (people) were used to produce it.
Not maybe. They do worry. Sorry if you got the impression that they do not worry. I thought the Guinness example was more than enough to make that point?
You can easily get twisted in knots if you try to follow this (mis)logic rigorously.
How so? You make it sound as if vegans have a problem with food, shoes and labor per se? May I also ask what your alternative (mis)logic would look like?
May I also ask what your alternative (mis)logic would look like?
Presumably, we would all run around wearing fig leaves and consume only organically-farmed switchgrass, washed down with beer fermented over an open fire fueled by nothing that could release carbon into the atmosphere -- I suppose a glowing sense of one's own self satisfaction might to the trick. Then, we all die or achieve New Age godhood by age thirty in order to minimize any other trace of ecological footprint.
Myself, I think I'm going to have a hamburger for lunch.
What is the "official" vegan stance on gelatin?
What is the official vegan stance on alcoholism?
The vegans and many veggies I know hate gelatin, assuming that they're informed about it, unless it's made from, say, agar agar.
Powdered sugar cane sometimes uses bone meal to keep it fluffy. (the linked article says "charcoal made from bone meal used in the filtration process", but I'm not sure how that would work. Can bones be used for charcoal?
Last night my girlfriend made me salmon purchased at the ever-virtuous Trader Joe's. In describing the meat, she referred to it in passing as "organic salmon". I'm sure I'm missing some detail of salmon packaging or preservatives, etc., but what salmon isn't organic? Salt water salmon isn't farmed, thus is not (dun dun duuuuun!) genetically modified or fed hormones. I mean, I believe when you go to the butcher and buy a piece of salmon, what you're getting is essentially a piece of fish, cut off the thing that came out of the ocean, which is by definition organic. Unless the word "organic" has suddenly taken on more metaphysical connotations, which would not surprise me at all.
I know this is not directly related to veganism, but I feel it's in the same ballpark.
Can bones be used for charcoal?
Almost any organic matter can be used for charcoal. The basis of creating charcoal is to heat something organic to a combustion temperature in the presence of limited oxygen. Water is driven out and the organic carbon/hydrogen structures are dissociated, but with inadequate oxygen available to complete the reaction, the material is converted to primarily dense carbon structures (carbonized). The resulting substance is then comparable to anthracitic coal.
Or I should have said, comparable to anthracite in composition. Charcoal is commonly less dense.
Peter,
Presumably your GF meant "wild" as opposed to "ocean farmed". Lots of salmon is raised in netted pens in ocean bays; the green objection to it has to do with overcrowding, the source & type of the fishfood, and nutrient contamination of the water surrounding the pens.
"Wild" means netted or line-fished in the open ocean.
anony-mouse - Okay, apparently there is bone charcoal. I guess my thinking was that there wasn't much carbon in bones, and I associated charcoal with carbon.
wiki linkthe recent issue of the journal put out by vegetarian resource group dealt with this- its not online yet. it lists the brands that use bone char to whiten sugar - & if vegetarians want to play it safe otheir only option is to buy usda organic.
I think "organic" for salmon means farmed, but according to some set of standards (which I have the impression are kind of bullshit in the case of salmon specifically.) If it were wild, they'd say wild -- "organic" means "farmed, but not like those fish farms".
Dr Bombay
What is the official vegan stance on alcoholism?
Alcohol is generally made without stolen baby cow milk, blood or chicken babies. I am sure you know the famous PETA ad where they claim that beer is healthier than milk. There are a few strange exceptions...
Guinness therefore depends on what kind of vegan you are. There are those vegans who are 1000% anal about everything (not me). A good Bombay Sapphire Gin is definitely vegan.
Then there are those who know that if they were to cut most animal products and the world would follow - there would be no animal resources left to be used at all soon anyway.
In other words - it does not matter if you have a label fetish or not - if you go vegan cold turkey or step by step... the destination is the journey.
The only thing that'd be sad is if you moved away from a vegan lifestyle. What is wonderful is when you move towards it...
Hmmm... Animal-origin charcoal makes it non-vegan... Then maybe they might worry about other non-vegan supplies used in manufacture, such as leather shoes worn by the workers, or the simple fact that "exploited animals" (people) were used to produce it.
You can easily get twisted in knots if you try to follow this (mis)logic rigorously.
Ralph
Then maybe they might worry about other non-vegan supplies used in manufacture, such as leather shoes worn by the workers, or the simple fact that "exploited animals" (people) were used to produce it.
Not maybe. They do worry. Sorry if you got the impression that they do not worry. I thought the Guinness example was more than enough to make that point?
You can easily get twisted in knots if you try to follow this (mis)logic rigorously.
How so? You make it sound as if vegans have a problem with food, shoes and labor per se? May I also ask what your alternative (mis)logic would look like?
May I also ask what your alternative (mis)logic would look like?
Presumably, we would all run around wearing fig leaves and consume only organically-farmed switchgrass, washed down with beer fermented over an open fire fueled by nothing that could release carbon into the atmosphere -- I suppose a glowing sense of one's own self satisfaction might to the trick. Then, we all die or achieve New Age godhood by age thirty in order to minimize any other trace of ecological footprint.
Myself, I think I'm going to have a hamburger for lunch.
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