I am second to none in my admiration for our troops. But this ad is one of the weirdest ads I've ever seen. It's running on Fox News in Washington DC:
I feel that my fellow Washingtonians are probably going to have little effect on the Berkeley city council, which has so far proven fairly well immune from stronger influences, such as reason. I also find it hard to believe that the marines lost a great opportunity when they were told not to recruit in Berkely. Nor that there is much danger that cities around America will follow Berkely's lead and suddenly start wantonly disrespecting America's armed forces. It's pretty amazing that real people spent their hard-earned money on this.
Why do The Atlantic' bloggers find spelling such a chore? It's Berkeley.
I suspect the point of the ad is less to prevent cities from blocking recruiting centers, and more to get people emotional about something, so they visit the website and get on move America forward's mailing list and get involved with their cause.
They are taking a situation that people have a strong reaction to as a way of building a donor and activist base - something groups on both sides do all the time.
The full story:
Berkeley did sign the proclamation that had those words, then later recanted saying they hadn't actually read it and that it was worded more harshly than needed. They did not, however, offer an apology because, while they did not want to use such strong language, were behind the sentiment.
So there were protests and counter protests. I'm actually right behind city hall and got to listen to it all day long. Quite amusing.
On the one side, the distinct smell of pot and dirty hippie. On the other side, the distinct smell of beer and dirty bikers. In between, a shit load of cops doing nothing except for yelling at you for getting too close to them.
Fun times were had by all, except for those of us trying to sleep.
Oh, and I didn't make it clear that all this hub-bub was about something that did absolutely nothing as the marine recruit station was already there and the resolution didn't actually force it to close or restrict it in any other way.
I suppose you're suggesting that trends have never initiated in Berkley that became popular at many universities around the country?
I also find it hard to believe that the marines lost a great opportunity when they were told not to recruit in Berkely.
What concerns me about stuff like this (to the extent that it's real and not symbolic) is its potential to turn the military into an organization that only recruits from certain parts of the country--certain cities, certain socio-economic strata, certain parts of the political spectrum. A bit of skewing is inevitable but the military is much more diverse than it's often given credit for being.
There are people on both sides of the political spectrum who want to turn the military into an organization that represents certain policies/ideologies, as opposed to a professional organization that exists to carry out policies formulated by elected officials. If Berkeley wants to protest US foreign policy it ought to direct its ire at the Bush Administration and/or Congress, not the military.
"I suppose you're suggesting that trends have never initiated in Berkley that became popular at many universities around the country?"
This is all about the town and not about the University. The University is actually now quite conservative. It's the people that live there that have the liberal views these days.
The point is the symbolism of treating the military like pariahs. To see this, imagine the reaction to a bill proposing to ban gay bars.
Makes me embarrassed to be a Berkeley grad, actually.
Well, speaking as a pretty much lifelong Cambridge,MA / Berkeley, CA guy now in the Army -- the people in the ad are nuts. JB is right that the Army needs to recruit from everywhere and people from all over the country need to take ownership of it. But the military has no damn business protesting that this or that city is disrespecting them and citizens doing it on their behalf foolishly miss the point: rather we have to see this as the failure it is and redouble efforts to make sure all Americans feel that we represent them. And what the city council is doing is misguided -- but maybe not much so, as I think much of the population of Berkeley feels (I think incorrectly, and certainly this is probably somewhat Berkeley's fault) that the Marine's _don't_ represent them. The council is representing that. Granted it would be smarter to recognize that somehow Berkeley needs to be _better_ represented in the Marines and elsewhere....
"The point is the symbolism of treating the military like pariahs. To see this, imagine the reaction to a bill proposing to ban gay bars.
Makes me embarrassed to be a Berkeley grad, actually."
I get the point of people's objections. I think the resolution was garbage as well. You miss the point, though, that this has nothing to do with the university, as I just said. There is no reason for you to be embarrassed about having gone to UCB. You also miss the point that the bill banned absolutely nothing. The analogy would be to a resolution denouncing gay bars but doing nothing to affect them directly, not to banning gay bars outright.
Funny Occam, that we hate each other so much. We're both chemists and I'm soon to be a Berkeley grad.
I don't hate you, Nutella. I think you're silly sometimes, and I'd gathered from your views that you haven't lived much, but time will change that.
My advice would be to leave Berkeley on graduation, to gain perspective on reality, because the whole place - city and university - are very strange indeed. (Paradoxically, in view of that advice, Berkeley jolted me out of my fashionably lefty views when I showed there for grad school lo those many years ago. Within three months I became the rabid right-winger you see before you today, because seeing left wing politics in action I grasped their intellectual bankruptcy.)
Although thinking on it a moment later it is goofy of Berkeleyans to feel unrepresented by the military given the probably hugely disproportionate representation that city has had, and has, in the federal government. The home of MoveOn really has no business thinking that the military isn't to some extent guided or at least constrained by its views.
Although some goof using a "we" to speak for the military while calling an elected city council ingrates -- well, that rubs me enough the wrong way that I'm gonna still say, the ad is nuts.
As opposed to the moral & intellectual bankruptcy of right-wing politics, as evidenced by the MoveAmericaForward advert.
And it's "Marines," w/ an upper-case "M."
Aw, Occam, and I don't hate you either.
I am only 25, but I dont think that I've failed to live. I've spent less than 2 years in Berkeley. I've lived in Iowa City, New Jersey, the burbs of Boston, and Pittsburgh. I'm not the most cosmopolitan of fellows, but I'm not some insular Berkeley kid.
Does Berkely have its own Senator, or a couple of extra Representatives?
Actually, 536 of your fellow Washingtonians could have a considerable impact on the Berkeley city council, with something along the lines of the Solomon Amendment that applied to cities.
For JB, fear not. Despite the stereotypes about California and the San Francisco area, the Bay Area is one of the top sources of military recruits, with either two or four (depending on where you place it's boundaries) of the top recruiting ZCTAs in the nation.
Not quite what I meant, Nutella, but fair enough. I meant major events, not just venues. Marriage, divorce, childbearing, getting a job, losing a job, firing someone, getting fired, deaths of family and friends, seeing the best people can be, and the worst. That's what I meant by living.
Is that really true, J? It's hard to believe.
Are you quite sure that that result isn't an anomaly of an unusually large catchment area? For example, it would make sense not to place many recruiting stations in the Bay Area, and so the results per station might be high for that reason.
Occam, Berkeley and Oakland have huge number of poor people and a bad education system. It's not at all surprising that it is a good recruitment area.
There's also a large number of conservatives further inland from the bay.
I also find it hard to believe that the marines lost a great opportunity when they were told not to recruit in Berkely.
As a San Francisco resident, I think you would be surprised at the number of military recruits that come from the Bay Area.
Many are from non-white ethnic groups (Asian, Filipino, Hispanic, etc.) so tend to be off the media radar.
There is a large non-white, non-yuppie population in the area, but you wouldn't know it if you don't live here.
There are also many working class whites (police, fire, construction, contracting etc.) here with more moderate political views, although mostly Democrat party types of varying tendencies.
Fair point. I was subconsciously thinking of Marin County, I guess. Still, compared with the South, where the military is held in such high regard, I'd have thought the Bay Area wouldn't be so promising.
Also, re the educational system, note that the military's insistence on high school graduates would probably thin the eligible ranks in Oakland quite considerably. A recent story reported that in Detroit (not so entirely different from Oakland) only 32% of high school students graduate four years after entering. (OK, some may have taken a little longer than four years, but most probably just dropped out.)
You are correct, Occam's Beard.
The condition of Oakland's schools is shameful (think of pre-reform Washington D.C.).
San Francisco, surprisingly, is much better. But the student population is now 30%-40% Chinese, which changes the demographics significantly.
And you are right about Marin -- richer, whiter, and more left than the rest of the Bay. But even there a more middle class town like Novato does not resemble Bolinas.
Does Berkely have its own Senator, or a couple of extra Representatives?
If Berkeley is anything like Boulder, the nut fringe dominating the old downtown district would rather have complete emancipation, primarily so they can smoke pot while having sex in public, while the wealthier suburbanites around the edges regard the nuthatches as a necessary evil for living in a picturesque town with good public services and a diverse arts community. The school (CU) is neither here nor there, probably leaning slightly left overall but not so much as the town politics.
Actually, the middle class/upper middle class in Berkeley are also quite liberal.
Well, to clarify, the entire town of Boulder has a generally bluish tint in any given election. But the wealthy suburban class tends to behave more like traditional Democrats while the barking moonbats that make the town famous (and probably help keep the DU forums busy) are actually just one constituency out of several.
The logical, proportionate response is for Congress to pass a resolution announcing that Tom Bates, Linda Maio, Darryl Moore, Maxwell Anderson, Dona Spring, Laurie Capitelli, Betty Olds, and Kriss Worthington are unwelcome and unwanted intruders in the United States, and reserving a parking spot near each of their homes for the use of protesters against them until they leave the country.
There's a little town nearby in Upstate New York that is sometimes called "Boulder East" or "Berkeley East", where they have also voted to condemn the war. Ithaca. It's also the home of the Grady family who annually trek down to North Carolina to protest the SOA. A little town where they won't vote for Hilary because she supported the war in Iraq. It's also a college town (Cornell and Ithaca College), where the students of the 60's and early 70's dropped out of life and stayed in town because it was so pretty. Guys with gray-haired pony-tails and Birkenstocks are noticeable in the summer. They started their own currency, and the fellow who started "Ithaca dollars" brags about earning just little enough not to have to pay any taxes.
What the radicals did a couple of years ago was to pour blood on the recruiters' offices. They've all now been convicted in Federal court.
"I also find it hard to believe that the marines lost a great opportunity when they were told not to recruit in Berkely."
I think that you are treating Berkeley and the surrounding area as being much more monolithic than it is. While the barking moonbats are firmly in control of the political process in Berkeley, and get inordinate coverage from the Bay Area's left leaning media, they aren't the whole thing.
And I would give the military much more credit for selecting locations for recruiting offices than you seem to do. Recruiters are carefully selected and motivated, and are not going to waste time where there is little hope of success.
I think the Berkeley city council are idiots, but there's something peculiarly American about the wide ranges of attitudes "We the People" have about our government and its rightful role in our society.
"I also find it hard to believe that the marines lost a great opportunity when they were told not to recruit in Berkely."
Actually, the services are quite constrained when it comes to spending their recruiting budgets. All areas/demographics must receive equal coverage. Believe me, those recruiters (and their command) wish they were in Texas--such is the luck of the draw in the recruiting game--you might get Houston, you might get Berkeley. Talk about career 'Russian Roulette'. Glad I did my B tour in recruit training.
There's so much misinformation flying around. I have followed this story from the beginning (also, I live a few blocks away from the recruiting station for a year and grew up in Ft. Baker, the former Army base in Marin).
1. The recruiting center was moved to Berkeley from Alameda because the Berkeley BART (subway system) station is easily accessible from San Francisco, the South Bay and is in the East Bay. Logistically it is the best place. Also, this is an Officer Candidate recruiting station, so they only are looking for college grads, thus being near Berkeley campus (and accessible to Stanford, Santa Clara, Cal States, etc) is a benefit. It also refutes Nutella's lie that only those of below-average intelligence enter the Marines. In fact, over 90% of recruits are high school grads (the US average is below 70%) and the average IQ of Marines is far higher than average, let alone Marine Officers.
2. The Berkeley resolution, in itself, did nothing. However, accompanying the resolution, they also granted Code Pink its own personal parking space, right in front of the recruiting office for 2 hours every Wednesday. This seems to be the only personal parking space of any kind on any Berkeley public thoroughfare. But this is not the only favoritism. Check out this video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x49wnb_code-pink_news
It shows Code Pink completely blockading the door to the recruiting office, with the tacit consent of Berkeley Police. If any group tried to blockade the nearby McDonalds or Wells Fargo, they would have been arrested in minutes (I shudder to think of the prison sentence of anyone who tried to do this at Berkeley Planned Parenthood). Obviously, Berkeley Police had orders from on high not to do anything (or even to protect Code Pink).
Far from being toothless, the Berkeley City Council is enabling Code Pink to shut down the licit activities of a legitimate government entity. They are hindering the war effort.
3. Why should this matter to DC residents (I now live 2 miles from the Capitol)? Well, because bills are being drafted to defund federal programs in the City of Berkeley--several million dollars. In order for this to pass, there would have to be broad-based support and awareness in DC.
This involves far more than an apology for symbolic speech. This involves material assistance to our enemies in a time of war. We can't win without Marines.