Just how stupid is this Obama in Muslim garb thing? James Joyner has the roundup. I always suspected George W. Bush was secretly asian.
« Should we harvest organs from executions? | Main | Accentuate the positive » Costume party26 Feb 2008 04:16 pm Comments (17)
Ann, The relevant question is, if Hillary wins, what will the country do when Aunt Flo visits? I mean, what if Hillary has her finger on the button to nuke some country with brown people, and she gets a cramp? [Note that I'm not saying that I think Hillary will be adversely affected by menstration, or that this should affect her election in any way, but it would be interesting to hear her talk about this issue, given his presumed personal insight. Would she visit countries during that time?] 
Ann asks:
This is actually an interesting question. Because of his background, others in Islamic nations might feel some affinity toward Obama beyond his stated religious views, and it might provide some interesting openings.
RICKM wrote: Note that I'm not saying that I think Hillary will be adversely affected by menstration, Good, because that would make you look kinda stupid, considering HRC was born in 1947. I'm fairly certain Aunt Flo kicked the bucket some time ago.
Yes, & RICKM looks extra-stupid, as well as misogynistic, when he can't spell "menstruation" & refers to Sen. C. as "his."
Was it not clear I was parodying Ann?
Was it not clear I was parodying Ann? Hmmm...I guess if Ann had been making some extraordinarily risible or foolish point, instead of expressing a serious question based on her real-world experiences in SE Asia, the effort to parody might have been clearer.
Finn (and whoever) - You addressed the question that I'm unsure about. Would others in Islamic countries feel an affinity towards Obama, as I thought originally, or would they be put off by his being 'born Muslim' and then turning from it? An anony-mouse indicated, I was taken aback by cases I heard of regarding the response towards apostasy in apparently moderate Muslim countries (Malaysia never seemed extreme), which is why I'm wondering now which way it would go. And I have to say that I like the idea that China would have to deal with a black man if Obama got elected. Every black person that I knew in Hong Kong (particularly several from the Bahamas that were well-educated) got treated like garbage by the local Chinese, purely because of their skin color. I wouldn't vote for someone based just on this, but given the rampant racism in Asia (as in much of the world), one consolation for me if Obama gets elected will be how much it will bug Asians to deal with an African-American. Similarly, I've enjoyed it when Condi Rice or Colin Powell travelled in an official capacity, knowing how much of the world hates blacks but had to put up with one because she/he represented the US.
China doesn't give a rats ass on whether the next American president is black. The fact the you don't have any compunction painting all Asians---and much of the world it seem---as racist say as much about you as about the world. Condi Rice has been the worst national security adviser in modern time that the US ever had, no matter what her skin color. Colin Powell was an ineffective secretary of state, if rather well-meaning one, having nothing to do with the color of his skin.
RICKM asks: (1) She's 61 years old. Is Aunt Flo even still visiting? (Does anybody know for sure one way or the other?) (2) Alarming as the above prospect may be, Barack "whoops I pushed the wrong button" Obama in office is even more so.
" I always suspected George W. Bush was secretly asian. " Secret - Asian man!
txc1010 - Have you lived in Asia? Racism is more open and accepted there. Of course it's all bound up with nationalism as well, in most cases, but it goes beyond that. The Chinese generally rank all non-Chinese as somewhat inferior, but among those non-Chinese, their ranking is based in part on skin color (as well as economic success). In Hong Kong, when hiring a maid from the Philippines or Indonesia, they don't want a darker-skinned one because she "might scare the children". And as I said, even successful, prosperous black people in Hong Kong had tales of deliberate insults that shocked me. They have a different name for 'black ghosts' than for 'white ghosts', and the first is considered to be a greater insult. Yes, this is a generalization, and yes, the Chinese leaders care more about their own objectives than about which foreigner they have to deal with, since we're all strange and uncivilized by their standards. But still, I think it will make a difference in their attitudes. And personally, I think it will be good for them.
Just a little sampling of Chinese internet chatter when Condi Rice visited Asia in 2005: http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001962.html "How come the United States selects a female chimpanzee as Secretary of State?" "This black woman thinks rather a lot of herself." "She's so ugly she's losing face. Even a dog would be put off its dinner while she's being fed." The 5000 years of civilisation on which the Chinese pride themselves were not so evident this week in the comments on Condoleezza Rice's visit to Beijing posted on the internet site "New Tide Net". As monitored by the media analyst Liu Xiaobo, the overall tone of the 800 postings was hostile and about 10 per cent were racist, sexist or both, reflecting what Mr Liu calls a pervasive phobia here about dark-skinned races. == Klug here again: obviously, it's chat room id sort of patter. Nevertheless, Asians, like the rest of the world, are capable of incredible levels of racism. It's not just aimed at black people, incidentally. White people come in for it, too.
Frankly, I seriously doubt that you've been in Asia for any extended period of time. Based on what you've been saying, i doubt we've been in Asia at all. You're could've probably gotten your opinion from reading the New York Times, like all well meaning PC police. Asian people are capable of racism, but it aim are everyone including other Asian, & in some cases within countries. In China, e.g., people from different provinces think & talk badly about each, much the same way, say, southern Italian would think & talk about northern ones. Also, Asian societies are not as PC as western ones, e.g. they don't mind pointing out the some groups are better in sport or do better in school than others. Again, you're unhesitant assertion that all Asians are racist w/o trying to understanding the situation say much more about you than about Asians.
Frankly, I seriously doubt that you've been in Asia for any extended period of time. And I doubt you possess the self-awareness to have any meaningful insights on the topic of conversation, based upon your willingness to judge Ann's world experiences with the eagle eye of a parachute journalist. So where does that get us? Shall we continue to dance about each other and growl, slinging jingoistic buzzword invective as we go?
yeah lets. She's probably an anti-Asian bigot.
I'll admit that I'm strongly anti-Chinese Communist Party. Personally, I think that being anti-CCP is an inevitable part of being pro-Chinese, since no group has done more damage to the people of China than the CCP (well, except maybe the Mongols). Granted, Deng was no Mao. Perhaps the Party will continue to evolve, although recent signs are that it's starting to reverse its movement towards capitalism.
|
Subscribe to this blog by Email  Recent Posts
Monthly Archives
Categories
 Should I call myself a feminist? Series III Tivo
|
Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
I also thought of APEC (aka '4 adjectives in search of a noun') when I heard of this fuss. Every leader that goes to an APEC meeting has to wear a coordinating funny outfit.
But this discussion made me wonder about something else - how many countries would still recognize Obama as Muslim (or as apostate), because his father was Muslim? I remember being surprised by stories from Malaysia, a pretty moderate Islamic country, about people being threatened with death for apostasy. It was usually a woman that wanted to marry a non-muslim man in a remote province, and it seemed that she usually managed to escape the country, but I was still surprised that there was even any question of whether someone could change their religion.
If Obama because president, it would be interesting to see if this affected international relations with some countries. [Note that I'm not saying that I consider Obama Muslim, or that this should affect his election in any way, but it would be interesting to hear him talk about this issue, given his presumed personal insight. Would he visit countries where someone else in his position, with a Muslim father, might be killed for renouncing Islam?]
Posted by Ann | February 26, 2008 4:36 PM