Does Ron Paul's fight for our most sacred constitutional rights really need to be defended with anatomical impossibilities and death wishes?
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
I wish the baboon heart in my ear canal would die.
I wish the baboon heart in my ear canal would die.
If you just wanted hits, well then, congratulations.
I'm sure though, that if you wrote something more substantial and analyzed Ron Paul's career in the 14th District and actually attempted to be fair... (instead of regurgitating a post from a DC gossip blog with an obvious liberal bias) then maybe so many people wouldn't be calling for your disembowelment.
It's easy to do that when you can hide behind an IP address.
But just to be fair, I'm still voting for Ron Paul. :)
Did you know Ron Paul is faster than a speeding bullet and can leap over tall buildings in a single bound?
It's true.
I think if wonkette let us post on her, the fury wouldn't be directed at people who just repost their "satire." Wonkette is just the epitome of hipster lameness. Like the Dead kennedys's holiday in cambodia types, or the Hipster Olympics types. Self-absorbed Williamsburg losers who care more about being trendy then the upcoming economoic implosion and nightmarish orwellian crackdown that will result.
So sloppy journalism is grounds for death threats and profanity laden abuse? Is this some obscure liberterian principle? Or have the Ronulans learned from the Jihadis that death threats against the press actually work. Are we going to see other jihadi tactics adopted by the Ronulans in the future?
Classy... a good way to win hearts and minds. This kind of thing won't marginalize the Ronulans AT ALL! Nope...
I don't think I'm the only one getting a bit angry at the insults directed to those of us who support Ron Paul. Hey, enough already.
Yawn ...and waaaaa!
Been to the daiy kos ever. on any given day the same sorts of vitriol are launched with orgasmic glee.
if the skankette opened her forum to "anyone" the invectives would have found the deserved target.
You are getting your hits though... so ... you must be happy.
See, the question was death wishes, not threats. So in short I suppose the answer would be no? The death wish comes from those writing the articles then, that is if they believe the threats.
And the only ones threatening the press is the Government. Not to mention, Since Honest Abe had people thrown in jail and persecuted for writing against him, harassing the media is generally accepted, as is suspending and ignoring the Constitution, so, take your medicine. Sometimes ignorance isn't bliss apparently.
You're a dork.
The benefit of this blog. Is there one? What are the benefits? I think you should study what the candidates are saying, engage your brain, not your bias, and inform yourself so you can independantly honestly comment on anything including Ron Paul.
What is wrong with the people who think everything is left and right, black and white, conservative and and liberal ? The world works in greys Megan. its all GREY. you need to go deeper than labels.
The benefit of voting for Ron Paul. Is there one?
@Earnest Iconoclast
wishing somebody a painful death is a not a threat, you moron.
Honey, you need to go out and buy a vibrator.
Don't you love how the Brownshirts in the rEVOLution love to shout down speech? Imagine if they were in charge. Good bye free speech.
If Paul supporters want to know why the press ignores paul, they should look in the mirror. Why would any journalist want to put up with this kind of crap. Paul's biggest failure is letting the grassroots run wild.
Ooh the ron paul people are fighting back....oooh brownshirts...ooooh.....ron paul is going to be president.....ooooh ....I better run out an get all my abortions before that happens.....how many can i get in before Ron Pual is president???.....ooooohhhhh.....i guess i'll have to find somebody stupid enough to have sex with me first.....oooooh....I better get on over to the wonkette and solicit a dweeb.....ooooohhh....bang me hard ....what's your major???.....
Look, there's no such thing as people who disagree with Ron Paul, there are simply subhumans who are not mentally developed enough to understand His ideas and active members of the ZOG trying to subvert Him
La ilaha illa Goldwater RonPaul Rasul Goldwater!!
Actually I'm tempted to agree with "enough already" and it should be clear I'm not a Paul supporter. I think his ideas were implausible at best and I think I compared his supporters to Lyndon LaRouche's.
However there's not much percentage in attacking LaRouche these days and there's not much point in attacking Paul either. He never won a single state, not one. He never did well in any primary. It is mathematically impossible for him to win and a "brokered convention" is extremely unlikely now. As a third-party candidate he'd do better than I expected, but it's unlikely he'd get more than 11%.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/will_michael_bloomberg_ron_paul_run_third_party_campaigns_in_2008
As a national figure or movement it's over. So beating up on him or his movement is no longer relevant.
The benefit of voting for Ron Paul. Is there one?
Knowing that you didn't vote for John Sidney McCain, Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton, and/or Barack Hussein Obama.
I agree with Thomas R. What is Ron Paul thinking? He is a big follower of that whacky Thomas Jefferson. I mean, who the heck would want Mr. Jefferson as a President? Those drafters of the Constitution... hehe what a bunch of kooks.
Personally, I love the accusations that Megan did all this because she's desperate for hits. Because a journalist with a fan base that followed her to the Atlantic from her private blog really needs to invite ad hominem attacks. Riiight.
Why would Ron Paul's ideas be implausible? Because we are already so hopelessly overrun with communism, and the people love it?
Hmmm... When our forefathers declared independence from the Brits, they pledged "their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor". Megan, you need to brush up on your history as the answer to your question was to be found there.
What kind of frigging rock did you crawl out from under, you latte-lapping freak? Are you so naive to think that all Americans are sell-out whores like you? Surprise!!! There are some still left in this country with honor, character, intelligence, and enough tenacity to throw statist-sucking scumbags like you into the Hudson River.
The Revolution isn't just coming, its here. Scared?
Just keep laughing, Remember what Dr. Paul said--
--And one more thing I would like now to state on this day memorable perhaps not only for us Americans. I have often been a prophet in my life and was generally laughed at. During my struggle for power, the Neocons primarily received with laughter my prophecies that I would someday assume the leadership of the country and thereby of the entire nation and then, among many other things, achieve a solution of the Neocon problem. I suppose that meanwhile the laughter of Neocons in this country that resounded then is probably already choking in their throats.
Today I want to be a prophet again. If international finance Neocons within the NAU and abroad should succeed once more in plunging the peoples into a world war, then the consequence will be not the Liberalization of the world and therewith a victory of Neocons, but on the contrary, the destruction of the Neocons in this country.
-Ron Paul
The Constitution is pretty clear about the limits of the power of Federal government and there's nothing incredibly complex about the 10th amendment or Article 1, Section 8. Yet, in front of our eyes, the Federal government routinely is in violation of the law, and it has to come to an end immediately. And so to answer your question, a LOT of people understand this and how it effects them directly. When all these people read your articles I am sure a small percentage of them are so angry they see you as 'siding' with big gov (the law breakers).
If you focused on my whole comment, you'd realize that I was speaking tongue-in-cheek. The people who threaten free speech with violence detract from the message of freedom and play into the hands of the enemies who call for regulating our rights.
My point, which I will reiterate for you since you didn't understand it the first time, is that the reason why so many people responded with less-than-nice comments is that McArdle appeared to be just restating what was in a DC gossip blog -- and it's easy to maintain some semblance of anonymity on the internet. I was informing McArdle that she might have received a better response from Paulites if she appeared to be speaking of her own accord instead of regurgitating.
But aren't we all some form of holy crusader on the interwebz?
Heh.
Once you've seen freedom, it's hard to forget. Those of us who wish to be free, we see all this up & down for what it is. We'll persist through whatever and make it.
Megan,
For sure death wishes are not acceptable.
However, your posts and snide remarks which undermin e the good works of Ron Paul for liberty and freedom are without a doubt 9th grade level actions on your poor posts at best.
Perhaps you should use your ability to reason and put forth valid thoughts and discover the value of Ron Paul's run....
By the way if you took the time to read my post I urged you to improve your abilities. I have meet you in person and found you to be charming but your 9th grade level posts are not respectful towards a growing part of the population who sees Ron Paul as the best hope our nation has...
Why not review his meeting with the fed Chairman yesterday why not use 15% of your critical thought to undertand the value of our dollar is declining and no other person in the race offers a solution other then Ron Paul.
I will check one more post from you in the future and if I find it teh resemble the same old replies then I will send a letter to the editor and that oes not improve your abilities I will then present a press release to oppose the atlantic.
In the end Megan just do your job and stop acting like a kid who is mad at Ron Paul.
I agree with Thomas R. What is Ron Paul thinking? He is a big follower of that whacky Thomas Jefferson. I mean, who the heck would want Mr. Jefferson as a President? Those drafters of the Constitution... hehe what a bunch of kooks.
Posted by Eric Nordstrom
-----------------------------------------
Eric: If you are going to be a Ron Paul cultist, you might as well learn that Jefferson was in Paris during the Constitutional convention. Madison, among others, is who you should be worshipping. Didn't you get the memo?
Yeah, and ALL RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ALSO THINK THAT 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. Get a life. You guys in the media have already accomplished what you set out for - denying American people the only hope they had. So, lay off and let the inevitable R3volution continue...
However, your posts and snide remarks which undermin e the good works of Ron Paul for liberty and freedom are without a doubt 9th grade level actions on your poor posts at best.
See, that sounds reasonable, until you look over what the majority of Paul supporters say and do. That's when you quickly realize that 90% of them are acting like a claque of 9th graders themselves, and treating Paul as the popular kid who is running for Student Council president.
That, in turn, comes with a whole fertilizer load's worth of vaguely narcissistic sophistry about liberty, rights, and virtue expressed in a form that oscilllates wildly between the impassioned and sincere tones of a C+ freshman Language Arts arguing essay and the viscious gossip of a high school cheerleading squad. The former efforts are just weak on account of all the Internet conspiracy theory rhetoric, and the latter makes it clear those who speak of this alleged liberty, rights, and virtue do not understand just how much they have of the first, would be dangerous if entrusted with any more of the second, and have no accurate conception of what the third looks like, even if it walked up and slapped them across the face with an old wet fish.
This is why Paul's campaign was on the rocks before the notion ever entered into his head, and it is why his followers get exactly as much respect as they deserve: His primary support base comes from the right-wing equivalent of the Democratic Underground.
You know, I never got an answer to this one question (and I don't think I ever will), but here goes.
In 2004, we as a nation elected a Democratic Congress (not a lot of small-government types), and re-elected a stupid/evil-mastermind president who led/misled/lied us into a war/genocide/pigeon shoot in the Mideast.
You might say that Ron Paul is the only one who really represents the intent of our founders (some say he conjures the spirit of J.S. Mill with chicken blood and fish legs), but does he represent the views of America?
Oh right, I forgot. Their idea of freedom is everyone agreeing with them.
@ Odin's Beard
Nobody is answering you because nobody knows what the fu** you are talking about. Make some sense ..get some answers.
I guess this is a rhetorical question. Because if it's an honest question, then you are not so bright.
So what is the point? Try being someone who was against the Iraq before it started. You wanna talk about threats and things, you need to take a bigger look.
Because news flash. There are dumb people. You can try to label them as such and such group all you want, but that just makes you one of the dumb people. They belong to all parties, support all different things.
However, here's another rhetorical question in reply. Do people really need to focus in on a small percentage of people in order to paint and label and entire group of people as such? Will certain people ever actually try to debate things logically, or will people like yourself continue to focus on anything but the issues?
Do you even realize that when you label as such, you are doing the same thing racist people do over race? It's the same concept, just different flavor/excuse. And as a Ron Paul supporter, I'll say that many people who support Ron Paul are no different. But it's a matter of who you want to focus and give attention to. Someone who responds and debates logically, or someone who acts like a 5yr old who didn't get his way. It looks to me as if you've chosen the later, but now that it's obvious maybe that can change.
Let's see if I get this right. You cut & paste from a viciously dishonest screed that calls Ron Paul a "blame America first whore", (typical lie) then you get bent out of shape because RP supporters get a little goofy?
Do you really think this is about who is winning the "horse race"? Is Ron Paul a 'double failure'? This man is a true and total Champion, because he is fighting for the RIGHT CAUSE. The fact that he is doing it against tremendous odds in a totally rigged system does not make him a 'failure'; it makes him, win or lose, an even greater Champion. And you don't even get that.
Really it is sad that so many pseudo-jouralists, pseudo-intellectuals and pseudo-experts cannot even discuss the issues. Just on 'conservative talk radio', we have frauds like Hannity and Limbaugh reveal their fradulence by their hate flatulence against a REAL Champion of Liberty, a number of local radio buffoons who scream and holler that RP is a 'kook', etc. What could be more 'kook' than the ranting, raving, yelling and shouting of their buddies Levin or Savage? Who could be more insane than the pathetic McCain that they have given us, while pretending not to?
RP discusses the issues, yeah, THE issues that everyone else is hiding from. And you don't. They censor him. At least you mention him, thank you, but you are pathetically out of tune with reality.
I found the 'death wishes' to be highly amusing, and you are in no position, you hypocrite, to complain. What you advocate, more Big Brother, is tantamount to a death wish on all decent, honest people. I also was highly amused that you whine like the 'multiple failure' loser you are, when you get a dose of your own medicine.
I don't wish death on you. The Ron Paul Liberty Revolution has started. How long it will take is unknown, but sooner or later, we the honest, decent and intelligent people, the people who support Ron Paul, will win. And you deserve to wake up every morning, hating happy people and being powerless to do anything about it, swimming in your own venom.
Megan is a vagina...just grab your latte, sweetheart, and vote for whichever CFR member you choose while chanting for change. Blah, blah, blah! You are blind and a product of pop-culture & neocons! Congratulations on your ignorance.
Fite Iliteracy,
PittsburghWomyn
Yo, anony-mouse:
Nice smear job, all lies. Try to get at least one or two facts before you flatulate in public again.
Let me ask you something here. Why do you struggle so hard to enslave yourself?
Didn't think about that, did you.
Ross Perot went on and on in the early nineties about NAFTA. Talked about how many jobs it was going to cost us. Used the phrase "big suckking sound". Bush senior and Bill Clinton with the help of Carville and Begalla and the MSM, no internet then, called him a kook and nut and a conspiracey theorist. Welll guess who was at the debate the other night in Cleveland talking about renegotiating NAFTA or else she would withdraw. Who is on the campaign trail everyday ranting about how awful NAFTA is (that would be Barack). Okay? Was it necessary for thousands of folks to loose their jobs. Thousands of American families put out to pasture? No. The partisans are to blame. It's "useful idiots" like this columnist and skankett. Why you want to smear the only people who step up to the plate to tell the truth? Why don't you have a look at far the dollar has dropped in the last few months? Why won't you consider recalling all of our troops as a real solution to many of our problems, financial and otherwise.
Ross Perot went on and on in the early nineties about NAFTA. Talked about how many jobs it was going to cost us. Used the phrase "big suckking sound". Bush senior and Bill Clinton with the help of Carville and Begalla and the MSM, no internet then, called him a kook and nut and a conspiracey theorist. Welll guess who was at the debate the other night in Cleveland talking about renegotiating NAFTA or else she would withdraw. Who is on the campaign trail everyday ranting about how awful NAFTA is (that would be Barack). Okay? Was it necessary for thousands of folks to lose their jobs. Thousands of American families put out to pasture? No. The partisans are to blame. It's "useful idiots" like this columnist and skankett. Why you want to smear the only people who step up to the plate to tell the truth? Why don't you have a look at far the dollar has dropped in the last few months? Why won't you consider recalling all of our troops as a real solution to many of our problems, financial and otherwise.
Megan,
You see you just don't understand Paul enough because you can't concentrate. But don't worry. The rEVOLution will have special camps to help people learn to concentrate.. they will be called... well, you figure it out...
Now back to reality. I wonder if all the Paul cult realizes that Megan can see the IP address of every single poster?
I wonder if Megan realizes we can see through her fear.
@Odin's Beard,
Yes, he does! But most people don't hear him, because the message is edited to non-existence and spun straight to kooky. For the true Americans do not trust the media to do their homework for them.
Some even say we live in a democracy. The ignorance in that is most people don't even understand that this is a grammatically incorrect statement. The educated know that we the people, in fact, live in a Constitutional Republic.
Fite Iliteracy,
PittsburghWomyn
Damn. There are a lot of people out there who are a lot more opposed to the cause of liberty than Megan. I do think her initial comment was a little misinformed--My understanding is Paul gets earmarks for his district put into spending bills that he eventually votes against. Which, given the Feds are going to going to tax the people in his district in any case, doesn't seem inconsistent, and serves the interests of his district.
But jesus christ, calm down people. The battle is not about Ron Paul, it's about persuading people to join the cause of liberty. He's not going to be president, but his presidential campaign (and his continued presence in Congress) still helps spread the message, which is far more important. Vicious ad hominems against someone who mis-characterizes Ron Paul's congressional record don't help anything.
Everyone calm down and remember the quotes of our leader.
All great movements are popular movements. They are the volcanic eruptions of human passions and emotions, stirred into activity by the ruthless Goddess of Distress or by the torch of the spoken word cast into the midst of the people.
As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.
As soon as by one's own message even a glimpse of right on the other side is admitted, the cause for doubting one's own right is laid.
All message has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.
Generals think war should be waged like the tourneys of the Middle Ages. I have no use for knights; I need revolutionaries.
He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.
It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.
Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be "discovered" by an election.
The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but only those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others.
- Ron Paul
The secret that will change the whole dynamic of this race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfFDPYMJvk
That's right! Victory!
The revolution will be permanent!
@mtc
Let's also not forget that this "Pork" spending is less than 1% of the annual budget! I can hear the neocons whispering, "quick, create a diversion"! This is chump change compared to the real waste in Washington!!!
PittsburghWomyn
What's the "anatomical impossibility" Megan was referring to? Gah clearly I'm uninformed. I'm also highly unlikely to be answered on this thread, aren't I.
"I mean, who the heck would want Mr. Jefferson as a President?"
I wouldn't. Do you know much about the Jefferson Presidency? His Embargo hurt the economy and was mocked in a book by a then thirteen-year-old poet who later wrote "Thanatopsis." He manipulated the American Indians in a variety of ways. He was viciously anti-clerical and a radical. Bordering on being a Jacobin. True he lowered the debt and ended the slave trade, but his Presidency was far from great.
As ever, a snide comment elicits a vitriolic and hateful response in self-defense of loyalty to a particular world-view. If the 'true-believer' is openly and publicly taunted rather than judiciously criticized, the result is escalated hate. But then, deliberately taunting the 'true-believer' seems to be too eerily similar to the impervious adolescents who recently taunted that tiger into leaping out of the cage and then they quickly fled, so surprised, as the beast mauled the tormenters to death.
Mr. Paul's candidacy is dead, and the philosophy of libertarianism is the worse for his extremism. What survives Mr. Paul is freedom as an ideology (Rousseau, Napoleon, neo-cons?)instead of freedom as a philosophy, and ideology/theology is the red raw meat to all true-believing ideo/theologues.
Why, Megan, taunt the beast?
Unfortunately, Ron Paul's good ideas are lost behind the flood of idiotic statements made by his nutty followers (and his own nutty ideas).
The Ron Paul Revolution is going to sputter out and die.
The "Ron Paul Revolution" will continue.
Aside from the numerous Ron Paul candidates that are running, many MeetUp groups are going to continue the battle to restore constitutional government and liberty for all.
"Aside from the numerous Ron Paul candidates that are running"
Could you name some of these? Are any of them running for something greater than say "Mayor of Houlton, Maine"?
The answer to your questionm is easy ........
"irrationality breeds irrationality"
What you need to realize is that this is NOT about RP. He is the messenger for a bigger cause. He has helped open eyes to the tyranny that is the federal government. The founders NEVER intended on a nation where its people paid nearly half of everything they made to the federal government. But this movement will keep going after RP.
Oh, and yes, some RP supporters are crazy and will antagonize you. But a lot of us are calm, mild tempered people. So I appologize for the behavior of a few but dont rationalize the actions of a few to be the actions of an entire group.
PS. Thats like saying that all democrats are uneducated on the issues. Most are idealist who want to provide a certain lifestype for all. But "We the People" cannot afford to provide this for everyone. Plus, if you look at history, Free Markets have always provided the essentials better than ANY federal government. That is why Socialism, Communism and Fascism DO NOT WORK. So I have a question for all of you now: Why are we headed in this direction when (history tells us)all it leads to is bankruptcy and mutiny?
Lincoln said it best, "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedom, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Jefferson also said this, "I predict the happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
Our founders were brilliant and our constitution is perfect. Why are we moving away from what our founders setup. We prospered for so long under this doctrine, why throw it out the window?
Of course there's also the point that some number of posts on "mainstream" blogs by supposed Ron Paul supporters are almost certainly "false flag" operations intended to discredit him. This is easily deducible if you spend time on libertarian boards and blogs (i.e., places where the vast majority of readers are already familiar with RP's actual positions, even if they don't agree with them, and thus can't be preyed upon by fakes) and compare the generally respectful tone of RP supporters there with the tone on boards where most readers never heard of RP prior to this election cycle and have only a rough second-hand awareness of what he stands for.
Go Ron Paul!
I was informing McArdle that she might have received a better response from Paulites if she appeared to be speaking of her own accord instead of regurgitating.
Yes, because the response to her discussion of tax policy was so civilized and sensible.
I notice that Ron Paul supporters don't seem to feel bound by the statement just below the input field, "By using this service you agree not to post material that is obscene, harassing, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable", and so on. I thought libertarians respected property rights, including the right of the Atlantic to keep its comment sections from degenerating into moral swamps. Apparently I thought wrong.
Wah wah wah, Ron Paul supporters are big meanies!! Give me a break, the Ron Paul haters I've come across online over the past 6 or 7 months since I've been following the guy have been some of the rudest, disrespectful, vile, hateful people I've ever had the displeasure of encountering in my entire life. For this idiot to attempt to make it seem as if Ron Paul supporters are a bunch of deadly fanatics is mind numbingly retarded. That's fine if you want to believe our job is to police the world and if you want to believe we can afford to do it forever, but don't try to further tarnish the image of a good person like Ron Paul, and the majority of the stable, intelligent people who support him and his message by painting us as a bunch of bloodthirsty maniacs.
I've been fairly rude and disrespectful to Paulogists, but I don't think I've swore at them and told them to die. If the people who say that kind of thing are "false flags" than you have my sympathy.
Still the zeal Paul supporters have, even when they've not been attacked at all, is a bit difficult for many of us to understand. I can't think of it being directed at anyone as old and not conventionally charismatic as him. I'm not sure what issues he's doing now that are so much more compelling than his 1988 run. So possibly we don't know what to make of you, especially now that Paul's losing the nomination is assured, and that makes us too snide.
Although the wackos who curse and threaten people deserve the snideness.
One of my problems with Ron Paul is that he seems to want to have his cake and eat it too. Isn't it now mathematically impossible for him (or anyone else except McCain) to win the Republican nomination? If so, why hasn't he dropped out and endorsed McCain in the name of party unity? If you say that he doesn't care about party unity, because he's not really a member of the Republican Party, then why did he run in the Republican primaries?
I am with Lisa on this one, Baby you need some good lovin, alone or with a partner or whatever casts your line. The irony is Lisa is my Ex wife's name. LOL and at the end we couldn't agree that night was night and day was day, She supports Ron Paul aswell, The Love Pantry will fill your need, Smile there is more time than life.
Ron Paul for president = FREEDOM
Clinton/Obama = despotism
Ron Paul for president = FREEDOM
Clinton/Obama for president = despotism
Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech. You're free to speak. You're free to be replied to. There's no law against writing or opening your mouth - and there is no law against response, even if they are extreme. So it is, so it was, so it comes to pass.
I understand why some of us are so aggresive in our defense of Ron Paul. I feel the same way. We have seen the media marginalize something we have all come to believe in, and that's Ron Paul's message. We are so amazed that everybody doesn't agree with us that we let our frustration take over and we blurt things out that we most likely later regret.
The real question should be, "Why are Ron Paul supporters so passionate?" I believe that he has struck a chord sleeping deep within Americans. It's something that some of us thought we, as a nation, might have lost forever. Ron Paul has awakened hundreds of thousands of people and given them a measuring stick to judge their government by. He is something that many think doesn't exist... an honest politician, and while they continue to look for that perfect "Harrison Ford" candidate, some of us have found him. He's a libritarian-minded Republican candidate from Texas who might have had better success if he'd been one of the nation's founders rather than arguing before the corrupt congress of the 21st century.
But his timing actually couldn't be better. He picked now to surface nationally and argue for a return to our founding principles, and if you look at the real "big picture", now is when we need it most.
That's why we freak out. Some of us have come to the realization that Dr. Paul has the answers, but we see people watching CNN or MSNBC or Fox to get their candidate info, and we understand that they're not getting the whole story.
Who is as excited about their candidate as Ron Paul supporters are? Even now, we are second to none. That wins us the title of "Tin Hat Brigade" and similar titles, but the truth is that we want our country back, and even truer is that we are willing to fight for it. Non-violently, of course.
It's the first time I visited this blog. The link came up in a google alert... for a phrase unrelated to politics. I'm a political informed person and quite interested in what others think about the candidates in the primary race but geez, there's no insight or wisdom to be found here. I won't be returning to read more, at election time or any other time in the next millenium. It's my opinion that trash troll blogs like this degrade the sanctity of the internet. It's just been added to the top of my most recent "plan to ignore" list.
I guess some people will just do anything for a bit of attention these days...such a pity when so much potential is wasted. That's the part I never understand. How people can waste something so wonderful as bandwidth!
Someone asked what other ron paul types are running. Here's a few of the better known ones.
Morray Sabrin for senate, new jersey
Jim Forsythe for congress, new hampshire
Dean Santoro for congress, florida
Brent Sanders for congress, louisiana
Ted Terbolizard for congress, california (I know, his name is funny)
There are many, many more, but those are the most prominent.
check out websites like ron paul congress, ron pauls across america, ron paul ambassadors
In the end, Americans get the government they deserve, which is to say they deserve a government that lies to them, robs them blind, cheats them out of all of their constitutional rights and makes them the target of the worlds hatred. It'll be a pleasure to watch them all flop around and die like fish out of water when the government they voted for crashes the economy in a spectacular fashion, perhaps when they're paying $5+ for a gallon of gas (in a few months) they'll take their heads out of their collective @sses and realize Dr. Paul was the only one talking sense, unfortunately for them it will be too late...
REVOLution Brownshirts? LOL. That's oxymoronic...
The thought that the only pro free speech candidate would end free speech is simply moronic.
"Does Ron Paul's fight for our most sacred constitutional rights really need to be defended with anatomical impossibilities and death wishes?"
My answer would be generally no. However, one could make a decent argument as to why Ron Paul supporters should use death threats. If it is OK to threaten Iraq and Iran to preserve our "way of life" so they cannot destroy "our freedoms." Then yes, one could say we need to defend our constitutional rights with death wishes. I hope the "Ron Paul Revolution" doesn't become the Revolutionary War. But anything is possible. Lets just hope our broken democracy can still function on some level so that Americans don't use violence in order to bring positive change.
Dr Weevil said on February 29, 2008 at 10:04 PM:
"...why hasn't he dropped out and endorsed McCain in the name of party unity? If you say that he doesn't care about party unity, because he's not really a member of the Republican Party, then why did he run in the Republican primaries?"
I don't know who you're quoting there, but it's wrong. Ron Paul emphatically states that he IS a Republican. He says the Party has lost it's way and no longer represents Republican ideals. Why should he endorse, for the sake of "unity" a candidate that is not a true Republican?
You don't know who I'm quoting? I'm obviously not quoting anyone, otherwise I'd have used quotation marks. I'm paraphrasing a possible objection. And I still think it's unethical to run in the Republican primary if you don't plan on endorsing the Republican candidate in the event that you lose.
Dude! Screw Ron Paul, I want Turbo Lizard for President now!
It is incredible that a few obnoxious Ron Paul supporters grab more attention than the POLICIES embraced by the other candidates, which have literally caused thousands of American deaths.
Unable to find any substantive fault with the man, or the lost liberties he is fighting for, it is a few of his supporters that are attacked in the message's stead. Pathetic.
Abortion - America's accepted holocaust.
Dr. Weevil,
Do you have no moral qualms with the other candidates pretending to be Republicans while embracing endless war, ignoring their own culpability in outspending Democrats, presiding over the biggest growth in government in history, and in short, chasing the Democrats to the left at full speed?
How could any self-respecting Republican endorse such policies, or their standard-bearers?
To pretend there is anything unethical about not standing hand-in-hand with assorted despots and unapologetic war-mongers who think government exists to legislate their prejudices and stroke their egos would be humorous if weren't so awfully sad.
Thanks Dave. I don't agree with Ron Paul, but it's good to get an answer on this question. It'll be interesting to see if this becomes a meaningful political movement or just an obsession for Netizens. My money's still on "obsession", but I'll look for these names and such.
Do false dillemas really have to be presented to trash people that actually give a damn about this country?
Enjoy the hooligan you elect for president, you utterly deserve what is comming down the pike. I don't, but I'm going to get the same punishment all you are going to get. You uneducated morons that don't pay attention to anything except your tiny little immediate lives and the (R) and (D) at the end of a candidates name - but only if they are on TeeVee 24x7.
You people, just simply do not understand the position the United States is in. We are in a banking crisis that is currently developing, and whatever it happens, it's going to be bad. Either massive inflation or actual deflation. It entirely depends on what the Federal Reserve decides to do. If they inflate, commodities are going to skyrocket, and that includes food and energy, if they deflate, massive unemployment. My guess is inflation, because that will hurt the most number of people and allow those that know it's about to happen to profit enormously from it.
Meanwhile, we'll continue to tax and spend until Military Keynesianism follows it's final conclusion of absolute bankruptcy of the nation.
You stupid fools. Don't say we didn't try to warn you. You foolish idiots. We had the last chance in this election cycle, but you're going to get what's comming to you. We all will.
Jeremy
You're absolutely right. We should be defending our Constitution and what it stands for with death wishes. These are our rights as citizens of the United States and as human beings that is at stake!
There are many in the rEVOLution that oppose violence. While I admire your ideas, I believe that they are getting us nowhere. Some form of aggression against the current system must be made. When it came to civil rights and equality for all people MLK Jr. organized sit ins at whites only restaurants so that people of color would have the right to sit in them. This is civil disobedience. How do we protest our government for the rights we want back this time? Unfortunately, the rights we want are lost to all people of this nation, many of which don't even realize how important they are; the right of free speech (yes, it's not really free speech anymore), the right to keep and bear arms, the right to petition for writs of Habeas Corpus, the right to trial by jury, the right to due process, the rights of states, etc. At this point, any American the President or the Department of Justice declares a terrorist is a terrorist just because they said so and there's no way for you to prevent this.
There's a saying that goes something like this:
From the soap box, to the ballot box, to the jury box, to the cartridge boxes.
Big media have taken our soap box.
The corrupt elections and paperless ballots e-ballots have taken the ballot boxes.
The PATRIOT Act, Military Commissions Act of 2006, and the Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 have taken our Jury boxes.
I think we need to begin collecting arms and munitions before they come for the cartridge boxes.
"Enjoy the hooligan you elect for president, you utterly deserve what is comming down the pike."
"You stupid fools. Don't say we didn't try to warn you. You foolish idiots. We had the last chance in this election cycle, but you're going to get what's comming to you."
This kind of respect for people who disagree with you and concern for America's future is truly touching. It reminds me of
"These days U.S. neo-conservatives vied with each other in making nonsensical talks overnight."
"U.S. neo-conservatives are letting loose a string of balderdash"
"neo-conservative forces' ballyhoo that the "world has become peaceful" is aimed to calm down the international public critical of the U.S. war of aggression and its policy of military presence in Iraq"
"Bankruptcy of U.S. Policy of Hegemony and 'Anti-Terrorist Strategy'"
"the true colors of the U.S. as a rogue state made up of hooligans"
"such ignorant and rude political hooligans"
"These hooligans committed such inhuman crimes in broad daylight"
"This goes to prove that the Bush group is one of hooligans bereft of any normal thinking power"
"The Iraqi war started by the U.S. imperialists suggests that they, the worst hooligans in the world"
"U.S. senator John Mccain and others of the U.S. ruling quarters"
http://www.nk-news.net/results.php?searchString=hooligans&booleanType=OR&startMonth=01&startYear=1996&endMonth=12&endYear=2008&inputLanguage=english&outputFormat=list&searchType=simple&dateSort=newest¤tPage=1&newSearch=yes&submitButtonName=%A0%A0%A0EXECUTE%A0%A0%A0
http://www.nk-news.net/results.php?searchString=neo-conservative&booleanType=OR&startMonth=01&startYear=1996&endMonth=12&endYear=2008&inputLanguage=english&outputFormat=list&searchType=simple&dateSort=newest¤tPage=1&newSearch=yes&submitButtonName=%A0%A0%A0EXECUTE%A0%A0%A0
http://www.nk-news.net/results.php?searchString=mccain&booleanType=OR&startMonth=01&startYear=1996&endMonth=12&endYear=2008&inputLanguage=english&outputFormat=list&searchType=simple&dateSort=newest¤tPage=1&newSearch=yes&submitButtonName=%A0%A0%A0EXECUTE%A0%A0%A0
Sorry, but what you said goes beyond politics and was almost cultish. You can't just smash people for not going with your messi-message. America will survive just fine without Paul as President or VP.
Woops those links came out crazy looking. Feel free to delete them. It was all from North Korean news.
> Sorry, but what you said goes beyond politics and
> was almost cultish.
Call it whatever you wish to call it.
Sit back, and watch what happens. You don't have any choice anyhow. Just watch.
I mean, the utter stupidity of the average American still continues to amaze me. You DO realize that if you continue to increase your debt, that at some point, you lose all your possessions. Right? There's no international bankruptcy court. You do know what happens whena nation goes bankrupt right? All of it's assets are bought up in the devalued currency of the nation, on the cheap. You saw this happen in both the USSR and Argentina.
I mean, do you have any clue, at all, about the financial condition of the United States? Any possible conception of what it means? It's blindly obvious what the eventual outcome is, the only question is when.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html
Do you bother to do BASIC research before voting? McCain is a member of the Keating 5. Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq war, she voted for the Miltitary Commissions Act, she voted for the Patriot Act, she's expressed support for attacking Iran. Obama claims he never voted for the war in Iraq, of course he didn't, he wasn't even in the senate at the time at the Federal level, he couldn't - he's willing to pre-emptively attack Iran, he's said so.
I'm just utterly disgusted at what a bunch of easily controlled morons you are. If you couldn't vote for a Republican, why not Gravel? He read in the Pentagon Papers, risking arrest, demonstrating the lies that brought us into war with Vietnam. He's a true damned hero.
And look at what we have AGAIN, for our selection for president:
* A member of the keating 5
* A woman who voted for every freaking Bush policy
* A token black man that has no record, but has some pretty scary statements on record.
You're FUCKING MORONS. How else can I say it?
Did you even bother to spend over an hour making a decision on how to vote? Do you know anything WHATSOEVER about macroeconomics?
Is the United States *really* this freaking retarded such that they will only vote for people the "media" promotes?
This is the SAME MEDIA that lied us into the war, that denied the housing bubble past 2005, that urged us to buy in to the stockmarket on every little runup from 2000 to 2002.
How fucking dumb are you you vote for yet another goddamn Neocon? That's going to be your "choice". Clinton is a Neocon, McCain is NOW a Neocon, and Obama is a Neocon.
I'm just amazed that this country is filled with people this stupid. It's amazing to me. Before you, in front of you, right now, is the most powerful research tool ever invented by mankind. With it you can research history, records, voting patterns, statements, talk to people across the world, read economics, see how the Soviet Union fell, how Argentina went bankrupt, why the Roman Empire collapsed, why the British Empire died.
And you don't!
You don't! You use the most powerful communication tool ever seen on the planet earth for WHAT? Nothing!
God your so fucking dumb.
God, you think *I* am a member of a cult. No - YOU are. You don't have a single clue what the hell is going on, and even worse, you have no interest in what is going on.
When the collapse happens, and it will certainly happen, you'll suddenly have an interest in what is going on. Since it's impossible to prevent the collapse because of lazy morons that don't practice their responsibility of being a citizen and doing thier due diligence before choosing the leaders of this country, we don't have any real leaders, we don't have a democracy. You lazy worthless fucks have hanged us all.
Sound paranoid, crazy, cultist?
Just sit down and watch. Please, PLEASE remember this. I want you to realize you have dug your own grave, and the grave of 300 million Americans. You have dug the grave of your children, your parents, and your friends.
Remember this message. I don't know how much time we've got left, but I do know the inevitable outcome of deficit spending. It's the same in every nation. Our credit is being cut off now, so now it's a decision of the Federal reserve. Either they will raise rates killing out tiny economy, of they will lower rates, impovershing the working class. Neither outcome is going to be pleasant.
Stupid idiots. You don't think actual serious economic and foreign policy was important, you'll realize just how vital it was, probably soon.
The confrontational, fanatical element of Ron Paul supporters (not a majority of them... not all of them... but a very vocal portion of them) was a factor in my not supporting his campaign as much as it probably deserved. These Ron Paul supporters, many of which seem inclined to post on this blog, make me cringe when I'm lumped into a group with them.
I might disagree with you on some points, Megan, but you has the right to express her opinion. Should I disagree with you, I can respond with intelligent agruments. I can post a counter-point on my own webspace. I can (and this is where some of these Ron Paul supporters fail) just ignore the post if it is obviously meant to rile me up. I might think that you've been unfair, but I can't be particularly angry with you as you've been harassed and threatened since you posted your disagreement.
Maybe next time around, the Constitutional candidate will disassociate him or herself from the conspiracy theorists and internet bullies.
The confrontational, fanatical element of Ron Paul supporters (not a majority of them... not all of them... but a very vocal portion of them) was a factor in my not supporting his campaign as much as it probably deserved. These Ron Paul supporters, many of which seem inclined to post on this blog, make me cringe when I'm lumped into a group with them.
I might disagree with you on some points, Megan, but you has the right to express her opinion. Should I disagree with you, I can respond with intelligent agruments. I can post a counter-point on my own webspace. I can (and this is where some of these Ron Paul supporters fail) just ignore the post if it is obviously meant to rile me up. I might think that you've been unfair, but I can't be particularly angry with you as you've been harassed and threatened since you posted your disagreement.
Maybe next time around, the Constitutional candidate will disassociate him or herself from the conspiracy theorists and internet bullies.
> The confrontational, fanatical element of Ron Paul
> supporters (not a majority of them... not all of
> them... but a very vocal portion of them) was a
> factor in my not supporting his campaign as much
> as it probably deserved. These Ron Paul
> supporters, many of which seem inclined to post
> on this blog, make me cringe when I'm lumped into
> a group with them.
What utter tripe.
There is a fundamental change going on, and it's urgent. Let me tell you a few things that ought to be reported in the media, that isn't.
Commodities are going to skyrocket, this doesn't just include gold and silver, but food and gasolene. You may think they have skyrocketed already, but they are just starting.
There is going to be what looks like massive investment of foreigners into US corporations. This isn't investment, this is foreign dollar holders trying to park their cash into something that retains values - and that isn't treasury bills.
What are known as monoline insurers are going to have a great deal of difficulty and this is going to lead to either bank failures or under the table bank bailouts. This is going to put further pressure on the dollar downward.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are already bankrupt. The government is going to allow private holders of bad prime and subprime mortgage debt to sell their debt to these GSEs. The CDOs and SIVs are already worthless and when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get them you, the taxpayer, are going to pay for it either through taxes or through inflation.
There is going to be civil unrest as the "lower class", i.e. poor, are going to be so poor they'll be worried about feeding and housing themselves.
The housing market is going to continue to erode for at least 2 more years, more likely 5.
You are all asleep at the wheel. YOU are supposed to know what is going on in this nation, and you don't have a clue.
I like being called crazy. I was called nuts when I bought gold in 2004. I was called crazy when I told people buying houses that the housing market was in a bubble in 2005. People made fun of me when I pointed out that Scott Ritter wasn't lying about there being no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
You people are going to have a very hard lesson taught to you, and frankly, you all need one. You've abrogated your responsibility as voters. You're not adults, you're irresponsible children who have allowed the country to bankrupted both fiscally and morally. This nation has killed 1/2 million Iraqis over completely obvious lies, and nothing has been done about it, and nothing will be done about it.
You have abandoned your responsibility to this country. It was a Republic, but you didn't want to keep it. It really is over. At this point, I'm simply looking after my survival. You're going to be on your own.
Good luck, and enjoy the bed you've made. We an opportunity, and you fools, just threw it away. Paul explained in detail what our Middle East policy actually is when he brought up Operation Ajax, during a debate, you ignored it. He explained the consequences of Military Keynesianism, you again ignored it. He explained inflation and what it actually is, and what actually causes it, and you ignored it. He warned about the housing bubble in 2003 which was obviously inevitable when lending standards were not just relaxed but eliminated along with historically low interest rates, you again ignored it.
None of you jerks pay any attention at all.
Reap what you sow.
Richard,
I've ignored nothing. I just happened to point out something that some Ron Paul supporters don't want to hear. The Ron Paul supporters that respond to criticism with self righteous anger and insults are exactly what I was referring to. Those supporters are the ones that turn off the average voter. Those are the supporters that make it easy for the press to dismiss Ron Paul as a loon.
A quick rundown of specific examples of comments that turn off the average voter...
"You are all asleep at the wheel. YOU are supposed to know what is going on in this nation, and you don't have a clue."
I've been working with my local libertarian party to address issues of concern for as long as I've known about them. Were you to approach me with the garbage, your candidate would not get any support.
"You've abrogated your responsibility as voters. You're not adults, you're irresponsible children"
I've never voted for a candidate that refused to uphold his or her Constitutional responsibility, ever. Your comment misdirects your anger and again, would probably lose you a potential supporter instantly.
"We an opportunity, and you fools, just threw it away."
Ron Paul is not a god. While it's unfortunate that he wasn't treated fairly by the press, it isn't the end of life, liberty, and property. There will be other candidates, and one hopes that the sort of supporters I referred to will have learned their lesson the next time around. Instead of blaming a vague group of baddies, you'd be better served by taking the lessons learned (what didn't work this time around?) and fixing them for your next effort.
I can't say that I'm glad that you proved my point. I'd like a bit more in the way of diplomacy from the people that absolutely NEED supporters.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I apologize for the changes in my first post between addressing it to Megan and to the readers. I changed the post after the fact, and it came out jumbled.
Lesson learned... do not post before copious amounts of caffiene.
@ Sabalo
Really? You would "not" vote for a candidate you mostly agree with because somebody who "will" vote for that same candidate is not good at defending "their" position? Really?
When certain cities respond to their sports team winning the championship game by "rioting" do the "journalists" discontinue future coverage of that team?
Ron Paul was/is ignored because he posed(s) a very real threat to the status quo. Ron Paul's supporters are suffering from righteous indignation in the purest sense of the word. The government should establish the Department of Righteous Indignation to help us. :) Doncha think?
Jim,
I'll always vote for the candidate that best suits my own beliefs (Constitutional government, etc). That doesn't mean that I have to remain silent when the supporters of that candidate act in ways that I find, if not unacceptable, then undiplomatic and harmful. It also doesn't preclude my disagreeing with the candidate on certain points, nor should it keep me from pointing out the failings of that candidate. Deciding that someone is the best choice does not mean that they've become perfect... and honest supporters realize that and comment on it.
Similarly, support for a candidate doesn't include support for that candidate's supporters, especially when they act in ways that (in my opinion and limited personal experience) harm that candidate's image. Shouting down someone's serious questions about a candidate is a surefire way to lose a vote... yet I've seen the equivalent online time and time again. Similarly, flaming someone like Megan, who does not support Ron Paul, is playing into the hands of people that are inclined to paint all Ron Paul supporters as unstable loons. Does anyone honestly think that they're convincing an undecided voter when they say something like "Honey, you need to go out and buy a vibrator" or "What kind of frigging rock did you crawl out from under, you latte-lapping freak?"
Ron Paul was snubbed by the major media, yes. It was unfair, yes. Posting hateful things on the internet and belittling anyone with questions or opposition doesn't help that cause. I've found, for my own part, that answering people's objections as best I can and accepting their decision if Ron Paul isn't for them gives the whole idea of a Ron Paul candidacy more weight with people. Threatening jounralists and posting profanity? Not so much.
This blog and wonkettes blog are not outlets for journalism. These two are not soliciting a serious discussion or they wouldn't post what they do. [Ron Paul is a blame America first attention whore.] They asked for this internet flame war exchange probably because it relieves the boredom in their lives. Probably for the same reason people listen to Howard Stern. But certainly not for the purpose of polite, intellectual discourse. So they don't need any defending. This is a case of you brought in on yourself.
In an environment where the journalist has instigated a valid discussion of policy and position then I stand with you on the argument you have presented above.
Still people are passionate about politics and religion. We all avoid these discussion in social situations in the name of harmony. The anonymous nature and ease of access to the medium bring out elements in individuals that are enlightening. At times it's refreshing when you recognize sincerity an anonymous posters passion. Despite it being polite or not.
For the most part I don't think these message boards make someone vote or not vote for a candidate. They do however, have the potential of helping to provide some clarity in a particular candidates positions.
Ultimately words are mostly harmless. Except when they are used to write laws with.
Okay, so I have to agree with the author, death threats and insults are totally ignorant. I have to agree that the extreme Ron Paul supporters have definitely hurt the campaign, and it's unfortunate.
I love the ideas and principles that Ron Paul stands for, Peace, Freedom, correcting our faulty foreign policy, sound monetary policy, transparency in government, trade with all nations, entangling alliances with none, I could go on for a million years.
Just to clarify, I am a sound, reasonable, peace loving American that supports Ron Paul. I have an innate ability to see both sides of all issues. Many of us, myself included, only seek to find true comprimise that would lead to eternal solutions for this country. Not all of us are crazy kooks, most of us are dissatisfied with the current state of American affairs on many fronts.
I have to say, if you haven't learned it from your mother already, please take my advice extreme RP supporters... if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I, along with many others, am tired of it. There's a distinct difference between being passionate and being an extremist.
And this too goes for all of those that oppose Ron Paul and his supporters... lets have a reasonable conversation and learn from each other, rather than attack and degrade each other.
Okay, so I have to agree with the author, death threats and insults are totally ignorant. I have to agree that the extreme Ron Paul supporters have definitely hurt the campaign, and it's unfortunate.
I love the ideas and principles that Ron Paul stands for, Peace, Freedom, correcting our faulty foreign policy, sound monetary policy, transparency in government, trade with all nations, entangling alliances with none, I could go on for a million years.
Just to clarify, I am a sound, reasonable, peace loving American that supports Ron Paul. I have an innate ability to see both sides of all issues. Many of us, myself included, only seek to find true comprimise that would lead to eternal solutions for this country. Not all of us are crazy kooks, most of us are dissatisfied with the current state of American affairs on many fronts.
I have to say, if you haven't learned it from your mother already, please take my advice extreme RP supporters... if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I, along with many others, am tired of it. There's a distinct difference between being passionate and being an extremist.
And this too goes for all of those that oppose Ron Paul and his supporters... lets have a reasonable conversation and learn from each other, rather than attack and degrade each other.
"When the collapse happens, and it will certainly happen, you'll suddenly have an interest in what is going on. Since it's impossible to prevent the collapse because of lazy morons that don't practice their responsibility of being a citizen and doing thier due diligence before choosing the leaders of this country, we don't have any real leaders, we don't have a democracy. You lazy worthless fucks have hanged us all. Sound paranoid, crazy, cultist?"
TR: Yup. You know I hate that jerk O'Reilly's phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid", but this comes pretty dang close to it being valid. I mean "collapse", "no real democracy", etc. Apocalyptics are of zero interest to me. If you want to join a compound in Montana and weight out the collapse of civilization that's your right. Just don't demand anyone else be interested.
@ Danielle
You don't sound like any fun at all.
When was the last time you just let it all hang out?
This is why Ron should bail out of the GOP.
BORING!
Oh and good for Sabalo and Danielle. If more Paul supporters were like you I might view his movement more positively. (I still would have disagrements of course)
> TR: Yup. You know I hate that jerk O'Reilly's
> phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid", but this comes
> pretty dang close to it being valid. I mean
> "collapse", "no real democracy", etc. Apocalyptics
> are of zero interest to me. If you want to join a
> compound in Montana and weight out the collapse of
> civilization that's your right. Just don't demand
> anyone else be interested.
Thomas, all I ask at this point, is remember a large group of people saw it coming and tried to warn you.
That's all I ask.
It's pointless and frustrating to try to discuss anything with people who simply denigrate you calling you an apocolyptic that shuold move to a compound in montana.
"It will never happen here". Everybody said that in Argentina at one time, and in the Soviet Union. It's war on ignorance Paul is waging, and he's going to lose, and you're going to lose with him.
Just remember, somebody tried to help you ungrateful fucks.
@ Thomas R
Yes, let's all be pleasant while Rome burns. Geez if we were just nicer to Thomas R on the Atlantic Monthly message board maybe Ron would've won. Now we're going to in Iraq for a hundred years. What a faux pas.
> Ron Paul is not a god. While it's unfortunate that
> he wasn't treated fairly by the press
Nobody claimed he was a god.
He was the most honest polician in my lifetime. He frankly discussed Operation Ajax which created the Islamic Revolution which spread through the entire middle east, which Al Qaeda is a part of.
He explained and talked frankly about what the Federal Reserve really does. Without deflation which is natural in the economic cycle and by creating only inflation, a silver dime now how the same purchasing power that a $1.25 does.
With unchecked debt growth of the nation, this nation and all of it's assets have made itself targets for foreign takeover.
None of this is complicated. It's simple obvious Austrian economics.
Do you know what money is today? What it represents? It's debt. The more debt that exists the more money that exists. When debts go bad, money evaporates. There is going to be a lot of bad debt from the housing bubble which is why the Federal government is doing everything they can to prevent losses in that sector. It's the largest sector for debt. Fannie Mae, a 30 billion dollar company, owns over a trillion dollars of debt. They didn't report earnings for 3 years.
I tired of repeatedly explaining this. Paul actually stood up, and laid out what the eventual outcome of this will be. Time frames are hard to guess, but it's very simple to see eventual results.
Our currency is going to collapse. It's fiat monetary systems that are the new, temporary, systems. It's existed since 1971.
Social Security is bankrupt. All the surplus money sent to it, has been squandered by our government. We have a 60 trillion dollar shorfall to pay for the boomer retirement over the next 30 years. That is 20 years of federal taxes.
This is why the CPI is lied about, because SS benefits are tied directly to it.
What impressed me about Paul is that he actually got up, and said what I already knew. What Peter Schiff knows, what Harry Schultz knows, and it's not easy to tell the truth. Look at how Paul was treated when he did.
We're are not leaving Iraq, not with McCain, Obama, or Clinton. We already elected a Democratic congress to remove us from Iraq, and notice we haven't left. We have a high degree of probability of attacking Iran. You'd know this if you researched the "top tier" candidates.
It's just a matter of time. Food, energy - they are going to skyrocket in price, because food costs are directly linked to energy costs because of how fertilizer is made. Sit back folks, it's going to be one hell of a sickening ride and you're going to have yet another liar as president pretending that it's no big deal.
By 2015, I'd say a silver dime will have the same purchasing power a $5 bill does and a $5 bill then will have the same purchasing power a $1 bill does today.
The United States is collapsing. Corruption, apathy, stupidity, greed and false patriotism, have brought on the wholesale abandon of our constitution. Are we aggressive enough in supporting Dr. Paul and thereby upholding the constitution?
Millions of men and women and killed and died to defend the supreme law of our lands. A few dirty words only shows the passion behind the intent.
In the words of John Paul Jones "I have not yet begun to fight".
You and those like you take freedom and liberty for granted and it is quite obvious that if 'your kind' continue to abandon your obligation toward taking personal resposibility toward to balance of power, we are doomed to become Rome. It begins with our crashing economy.
I have served in the military for more than 14 years now. With my service comes an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foriegn and domestic. From my perspective, if you don't vote for Ron Paul (based on what the constitution demands of our leadership and his record of meeting such requirements) then you are either dumb, lazy, apethetic, or an enemy of the constitution. Obama, Clinton, McCain, and Huckabee have all broken their oaths of office on many occasions. I could not find a single broken oath by Paul.
Do your homework. Open your eyes and help us defend our country.
Friend or foe we will continue to defend the constitution. Whether it is recognized or not, we do you a great service.
Ultimately I never thought it would be so hard to upold the constitution. Unwhittingly the people it protects are the people trying to destroy it.
It is this patriots worst nightmare.
Eric Nordstrom, American
"Yes, let's all be pleasant while Rome burns." Jim
This is not ancient Rome. Besides which belief in a man on a white-horse who will save us did very little for Rome in the long-run.
"Geez if we were just nicer to Thomas R on the Atlantic Monthly message board maybe Ron would've won."
There was nothing he could do to win because his values are not the values of America's people. The libertarianish segment might be as high as 15% so he didn't reach his "ceiling", but even if he had he still wouldn't be President.
However by acting less alarmist and vicious you could possibly have gained more respect than you got. In time that could've parlayed into something. Instead you'll be lucky to maybe have a handful of like-minded Congressman.
So being nice to me is not the issue at all. I was never open to being persuaded by your movement or even sympathetic to it. Your vehemence and apocalypticism has led to attacking people who might be open to listening to your ideas.
awww. Missed you too Megan.
We Will Never Forget. We will homeschool the shit out of our children and warn them against the biggest treasonous bstids of our time- the MSM. :)
Please Pardon the profanity-
#1 Pardoning is fashionable
#2 You know how we "loony" Ron Pauliticos get.
Thomas R:
Quote "So being nice to me is not the issue at all. I was never open to being persuaded by your movement or even sympathetic to it. Your vehemence and apocalypticism has led to attacking people who might be open to listening to your ideas"
Our movement was started by Thomas Jefferson and is established in writing within the constitution.
Based on your above quote, you are not open to the constitution and you will never be sympathetic to it.
Shame on you.
I understand both sides of this argument. We definetly need to be respectful, and understand that people put on the defensive do not listen. However, I also understand the frustration. I have been aware of these issues for awhile, and the problems are accelerating very rapidly now.
It is frustrating when you feel you are screaming at a wall. I think the "extreme" supporters are a bit like college kids who have never been away from home before. If you are just learning about the situation we are in this past year, it can be overwhelming, and their is a process of acceptance being in the minority position.
But it is unfortunate that it seems that some people would rather ignore all impending signs to maintain the illusion of security. Unfortunately, that is why the norm for humanity is authoritarianism, and our constitutional experiement requires such constant vigilance.
> I understand both sides of this argument. We
> definetly need to be respectful,
Um, no we don't.
These morons have guaranteed the destruction not just of our financial system, but maybe even our constitution.
There's no reason nor need to be polite to a group of idiots that has sabatoged not only your future, but the entire country's future.
This isn't a disagreement over policy, it's one group of people arguing policy with a bunch of morons that don't even bother to research or understand anything about policy at all. So once again, we're electing the person with the best hair color and charisma. Competence isn't even a factor for this assholes. Neither is voting record.
I see no reason to be respectful with somebody that holds me in contempt for trying to educate people about the serious situation this nation is in. We have very serious financial problems on the horizon, this will become more apparent as the Fed continues to desperate cut rates to save the stock market as the dollar futher declines. Our military is in shambles and this ought to be apparent when you realize the US spends more money on the military than the rest of the world combined does and is unable to win a skirmish in a nation that was under sanctions for a decade. The military is nothing more than a very corrupt system that is an excuse to loot the taxpayer - that is it's main function today.
So, we're going to end up with yet another ignorant chucklehead for president and it will simply continue until it can't continue any longer, and the limit is money.
I know that at least I did my part as an American citizen to try to stop it. I've been fighting people who want to keep the general populace ignorant and there's nothing more traitorous than keeping the voting public ignorant.
"Our movement was started by Thomas Jefferson"
I kind of doubt it. I believe Jefferson sent troops to the Barbary Coast and favored gentlemen farmers. He didn't have anything to say about the Austrian School, how could he?
Besides that society has advanced since Jefferson so many things he believed are irrelevant now. For example Jefferson said the following.
"The Indians will astonish you with strokes of the most sublime oratory; such as prove their reason and sentiment strong, and their imagination glowing and elevated. But never yet could I find that a black had uttered a thought above the level of plain narration"
In addition to that the Founding Fathers included a variety of opinions many of which would not fit Paul at all.
"and is established in writing within the constitution."
Madison, as I recall, was also a more prominent figure in it than Jefferson. Seeing as Paulologists rarely mention Madison I wonder if he's entirely acceptable to you.
In addition the Constitution allows for an amendment process. Paul disapproves of at least two Amendments I know of. The original Constitution of the Founders allows for things like slavery that I know you reject.
And no this isn't an attempt to make you sound racist. I'm just saying that the world changes. Not everything believed two centuries ago, even by the wisest men, is still valid. Even if it were "The Founding Fathers" was a diverse group with varying views. So mostly Paul supporters seem to ask that we believe a minority of dead intellectuals has the answer to modern problems. On what is this based? Can you at least show a US city ran on Paulology that works?
> I kind of doubt it. I believe Jefferson sent
> troops to the Barbary Coast and favored gentlemen
> farmers. He didn't have anything to say about the
> Austrian School, how could he?
"The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered."
Who do you think said that?
You think Austrian economics was CREATED by Mises. No, it's not like Keynesianism. Mises *discovered* Austrian economics much like Darwin discovered evolution. Darwin didn't CREATE evolution. Mises observed how free markets worked and made a model to explain the mechanism.
Keynes created a new economic system, much like Marx did and neither one is natural and as a result, neither one will last. Artificial systems only work in the absence of corruption. In a natural system, there is no cheating.
Keynesianism is an experiment that was basically started in 1917 in the United States. In 1800-1933, an ounce of gold was $20. By 1934 it had been revalued to $35 an ounce by FDR but 2/3rds of privately owned US gold was exported by that time and those holders profitted enormously, and they were rich to begin with. By 1964, the US quit coining coins in silver, and now a silver dime from that date is worth $1.25. In 1971 the US left the gold standard entirely. By 1975 gold was $200 an ounce. By 1980 it peaked at $800 an ounce, and Paul Volker increased interest rates to reduce the money supply. In 1988, the dollar stablized when OPEC formally agreed to price oil ONLY in dollars in exchange for being allowed to exist as a cartel without interference from the US which had outlawed them. This is the result of the Carter Doctrine and Reagan Corollary and also in part from Bretton Woods.
There is no large exporter of a raw material the entire planet needs that will standardize on the dollar. Where will it end up this time? Until we get another Volker, the dollar is going to continue to crater. If you think gas and food are expensive now, wait 10 years.
We *really* tried to help you fools. Don't be gnashing your teeth in 10 years blaming anybody but yourself for your situation.
The point of the Paul campaign wasn't to win, it was to educate. He's helped a LOT OF PEOPLE, but you're probably not one of them. It's not my loss, in fact, the more people he didn't help, the more my assets are going to be worth.
Thomas: "This is not ancient Rome."
No, it's not.
Rome unravelled slowly over a 400 year period. We're going to do it under 10, but we're going to do it for the same reason.
Rome was entirely dependent on foreign wheat being imported to it. We're entirely dependent upon foreign oil and both us and Rome paid for it all with a fiat monetary system. Their's was tin silver mix, our's is paper.
"Rome was entirely dependent on foreign wheat being imported to it. We're entirely dependent upon foreign oil and both us and Rome paid for it all with a fiat monetary system." RW
If this is why you think Rome fell I'm not sure what to tell you. Actually I'm sort of sorry I ever talked to you. However though I may be a fool I have hopefully learned from that particular error.
Thomas writes:
> If this is why you think Rome fell I'm not sure
> what to tell you.
Well, you could tell me why you THINK it fell.
Undoubtedly, you're going to tell me it fell because of corruption and mercanaries turning against their employers. That's true.
Why did this happen?
You guys, simply have no idea. I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to tell you why it's going to happen and hopefully to try to ingrain into your tiny mind for a few years. Maybe you'll remember that some crazy lunatic thought the US was going to collapse for a bunch of crazy reasons for a couple years.
My delight is when you realize I was actually right. I can't predict when exactly it will happen, I can only say it's definately going to happen and pretty soon.
I want you fuckheads to know you've done. I want you assholes, you pinheads to realize that SOMEBODY actually laid out the truth, and you ignored it. It's already too late for this election, but after we go into our very serious "correction", I want you asswipes to make the right decisions then and not repeat the same mistakes again out of your pure and enormous ignorance.
I just want you remember.
I'm hoping you'll get the lessons that you can't trust the government, you can't trust the Federal Reserve, and it's your responsibility to understand economics for not only your own well being, but the well being of the nation. I do not want you to fuck me again if only enough people know why the collapse happened.
The FDR program was the worst disaster for this country ever. It was because of him, the depression lasted for decades. Government intervention doesn't help, it hinders. It's designed not to protect ordianary citizens, but to protect the people that actually do own this country. You're going to get screwed, and you're screw me, if you repeat the same error. The same errors you assholes continually repeat.
Reagan doomed this country by making deficit spending acceptable by the Republican party for military keynesianism. Now, 20 years later, we're coming to the end of it. About 1/4 of our budget goes directly to the military, and when our nation only has a military, every solution is a war. We're going down the same economic collapse that Nazi Germany did, just more slowly, and we're not exterminating Americans - yet. Hopefully we never will, but there's no guarentee of it.
"Well, you could tell me why you THINK it fell."
That would require me to talk to you more. Pick a history book not written by someone at the CATO Institute and find out for yourself.
Still if you want to talk "remembering" ten years from now I'll try to remember what you said so I can have a good laugh.
> "Well, you could tell me why you THINK it fell."
>
> That would require me to talk to you more. Pick
> a history book not written by someone at the CATO
> Institute and find out for yourself
The CATO institute supported the war in Iraq, dummy. They aren't Libertarians, just like Bush isn't a Republican, and Hillary Clinton isn't a Democrat. Didn't you know that?
You can be as stupid as you want, I can't do anything about it. My problem is when your stupidity affects me, and it is. I don't care about your ignorance of history so much as I care about your ignorance of the state of this country.
> Still if you want to talk "remembering" ten
> years from now I'll try to remember what you
> said so I can have a good laugh.
You can denigrate me all you like, I don't care, but certainly, remember it. I've seen how both Argentina and the USSR collapsed having witnessed both and knowing people who lived through each. Our situation isn't identical, but they are very similar.
The Asian and European stockmarkets took a beating last night, I'll bet that our market opens up. Why? Because our government is directly intervening in the market, and this has become a pretty discernable pattern over the last few weeks. It doesn't always happen, but over 90% of the time they pull it off. It just delays the inevitable because you always return to market costs. You can see what is really going on in the market by looking at (legal) insider trading which is all published if you bother to look. The market is crashing. It's certainly crashing against commodities which have outperformed the stockmarket since 2000.
What's the market cost of a US dollar bill when the United States is the largest debtor nation in the world, and has no infrastructure to pay it back in either goods or services?
Any guesses?
Today, Russia has a 13% flat tax and is has the 4th largest monetary surplus in the world and they still have a military that can go head to head with the United States. They never lost their manufacturing capability, they just made it much more efficient in the last 20 years.
Americans are so arrogant, they simply can't believe that this country follows the same economic laws that every other nation in the world has since nations formed. Well, we do.
What kind of moron writes in the same comment that "the USSR collapsed" and that "Russia has a 13% flat tax and is has the 4th largest monetary surplus in the world and they still have a military that can go head to head with the United States". Sounds like total national collapse isn't all that bad. Or more likely that Richard Wicks should stop calling other people "fuckheads" and "assholes" and "pinheads" and go look in the mirror to see someone who's all three.
If he hasn't sold his house and headed for New Zealand or a compound way up in the mountains, then he can't possibly believe what he writes here.
> What kind of moron writes in the same comment that
> "the USSR collapsed" and that "Russia has a 13%
> flat tax and is has the 4th largest monetary
> surplus in the world and they still have a
> military that can go head to head with the United
> States".
A moron that recognizes that the Soviet Union drastically changed their government, when talking to a genius that doesn't realize that their government has changed drastically due to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
That kind of a moron.
We can either go through a collapse to change our government, or we can change our government now and avoid the collapse.
It's that simple, you're chosing the collapse route.
The United States doesn't spend 600 billion dollars on the military because it needs to spend 600 billion dollars in order to protect itself, and still be unable to win a skirmish in a nation that was under sanctions for a decade. This is more money that the rest of the world spends on the military, combined. The rest of the world is 5.6 billion people. We spend 2000 dollars a year, per citizen per year on the military and over 1/2 of that money is borrowed from foreign creditors.
The United States spends 600 billion dollars on a military because our government is extremely corrupt and the vast majority of the money is simply looted and never actually gets to the people in the military that serve in the military.
And this sort of pervasive corruption isn't confined just to our military. It's in our Social Security system, our health care system, our environmental angencies, our school systems. Haven't you ever wondered why schools have to pay for public education books, rather than just have these books published online without copyright? FEMA's budget is in the 10's of billions of dollars per year, look at what they did during Katrina. Why is a horse judge heading up the agency?
Do you even realize how corrupt our government is? It's blatant.
We don't have a functioning media. The entire media was pumping the Iraq war and weapons of mass destruction despite the fact Scott Ritter was telling everybody that would listen it was a lie. George Tenant got the presidential medal of freedom AFTER he took the blame AFTER he resigned from the position of CIA director. Do you know who Ritter is? He was the UN weapons inspector in Iraq. He's also a life long Republican, and an ex marine. When he spoke out, he was first accused of being a spy for Hussein, and later, a pedophile.
The corruption is so obvious, but worse than that, it's at the end of it's growth. Our politicians are simply looting the country before it collapses, and they are going to buy up everything on the cheap, just as the oligarchs of Russia did after the USSR collapsed.
So, we're going to go through the collapse instead as parasites kill the host finally. Do you know what happened as the USSR collapsed and Russia emerged? I suggest you study it.
You think this is all just a joke, but it's not. We are in a very severe situation. Housing mortgages are where the bulk of bank money is invested. When you deposit money in the bank, it's sent 90% of the time to pay for a mortgage.
What happens when that mortgage doesn't get paid? It means you don't get paid, but FDIC insurance kicks in.
FDIC is private company. Do you know what their capitalization?
Why isn't the M3 monetary supply any longer reported?
Why is MZM skyrocketing?
Did you know bank reserves have gone negative?
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/01/bank-reserves-go-negative.html
There are people trying to lead you jackasses to water. Paul is one of them. You might want to read some of his stuff, he publishes articles frequently on the internet.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html
Play games all you like. Just don't be whining about your situation 5 years from now. Everybody has done their best to educate you. You've been given more opportunity than you frankly deserve.
I doubt you've even bothered to read this far.
Good. You're going to get what you deserve. It's very easy to protect yourself if you recognize what is going on, but you're going to be destitute if you don't and I don't have any sympathy for you and I won't have any sympathy for you if you don't bother to do basic homework.
I've painstakingly laid out and explained what is going on. I hope you ignore it, you deserve it.
Wow, just wow. I've been trying to figure out why the rEVOLution has taken off and this is a perfect example of why we have failed. As another poster put it, why would any reporter want to give Dr. Paul one minute of time considering how many of his followers act. You all should be ashamed of yourselves and when the rEVOLution fails, look in the mirror; don't imageine some conspiracy.
> Wow, just wow. I've been trying to figure out why
> the rEVOLution has taken off and this is a perfect
> example of why we have failed. As another poster
> put it, why would any reporter want to give Dr.
> Paul one minute of time considering how many of
> his followers act.
Go to hell you moron.
Don't blame this on us, blame this on the ignorance of the population. You don't sit back politely as the country falls apart and is systematically raped.
I'm just disgusted with the lot of you. This isn't some popularity contest or a stupid game. We're facing a systemic breakdown of our financial and political system, right now, and Paul, Schiff, Schultz, they all know this. The educated know this, and of course, they are angry. They are angry at what a stupid bunch of cows have done to us who tried to warn them.
It's too late to get the country to do the right thing, at this point, it's individual survival.
> You all should be ashamed of yourselves and when
> the rEVOLution fails, look in the mirror; don't
> imageine some conspiracy.
Look in the mirror?
I'm looking at you. YOU are at fault. Lazy worthless people who don't bother to even understand the basics of the world around you. Uneducated voters still voting.
I mean, look at who the Republican nominee is? A man that was the leader of the Keating 5 as our CDO derivatives sink our banking system. He's the worst possible choice. We have the S&L scandal on a national level this time. The last S&L scandal effected a handful of states and cost a trillion dollars in 1988 dollars. This time, it's nationwide.
Neil Bush was heavily involved with the S&L scandal, what a COINCIDENCE that it's happening now.
There's no reason to continue throwing pearls to you swine. It's perfectly obvious what is going on, if you just simply turned off your TV and used the Internet for something more than reading regurgitated propaganda from idiots that are better at writing than they ever would be with thinking.
Silver just went over $20 an ounce, and it' an industrial metal. I wonder why it's so expensive when we're going into recession? Where is the demand coming from? Can you guess?
Good luck people. You are going to need it. I can't and I won't do any more. You really have been given more opportunity than you deserve. I have nothing but contempt left for you.
Yea, everyone else is stupid and Paulites are holders of a special knowledge.
Ron Paul has allowed more wasted money than ANY member of congress from either party.
Everytime he had the chance to negotiate out a few billion dollars from the budget but instead chose to vote “no” on principal then he, the mighty postulator Ron Paul, wasted BILLIONS to try to advertise his principals.
He is elected to do a job and he has refused to do it. I am embarassed that it took so long to see through this hypocritical “wild shrimp” minded phony.
He could have done the hard work of negotiating better budgets, better trade deals, better laws and the such. However he has chosen instead to lambast the Republicans at every turn to prove how he is the most “constitutional” representative there.
Too bad.
I understand Richard.
Ron Paul is from the government and he is here to help.
Thanks
Poor stupid Richard Wicks just can't stop lying and making stuff up about his opponents. Turn off the TV? Done years ago. McCain was "the leader of the Keating 5"? No, McCain, along with John Glenn, was a very small fish tangentially associated with the Keating 5: they were added to the three Democrats who were the actual leaders of the scandal to make it look bipartisan. Anyone who doesn't know that is in no position to call anyone else stupid or ignorant.
I could go on, but why bother? Richard Wicks thinks it's too late to save this country anyway, so why is he even arguing? Shouldn't he be packing his bags and heading for the airport? Shouldn't Ron Paul be resigning from Congress and heading for the border, if he thinks the same as some of his supporters?
I think it's important to choose the least of the three evils that still have a chance to win the presidency at this point. I'm not thrilled, any more than my parents were when faced with Nixon (eeeuw!) versus Kennedy (ick!). I'm not going to do what they did and flip a coin, though: I'm going to think carefully and then vote for the one who is marginally less loathsome than the other two. It would be unAmerican not to.
@ Dr. Weevil
B.S. you don't even sound old enough to vote.
Poor stupid 'Jeff' hasn't figured out that anyone who clicks on the link in my signature can easily determine whether I'm likely to be old enough to vote. The fact that I've been blogging for 6+ years is just one clue. Of course, clues are something 'Jeff' is remarkably short of, like the vast majority of Paulians.
Wow... and this conversation still goes on, I'd like to take a minute to thank both sides because it is as informative as it is confusing. I have many conversations with close friends/family who agree that we are losing this country.
Here are some questions I ask all supporters and anti supporters... and I suppose I am mainly directing these at the ANTI RON PAUL people here, even the orginal author herself.
Do you know what the federal reserve is?
Do you know that it is not even supposed to exist?
Did you know our own congress should be doing their job and printing it's own money for itself at no interest to ourselves?
Do you know why it is so detrimental to our nation?
Did you know there is not one law that states that we have to pay federal taxes?
Why do we? The tax imposed by the 16th ammendment doesn't include your personal wages, The constitution forbids a direct unnapportioned tax on personal wages. YOUR LABOR IS YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY, UNTAXABLE! (the 16th ammendment didn't give them any new taxing powers) it simply meant taxes for corportations on their profits and gains. If you disagree with this, FIND ME THE FEDERAL LAW THAT STATES OUR INCOME OUGHT TO BE TAXED!
Did you know the U.S. citizens paid taxes somewhere in the neighborhood of $927 billion ILLEGALLY on their income in 2005, while corporations only paid $278 billion?
Do you understand that inflation can't fix inflation, this is the cause of all of the bubbles, and that's all the FED keeps on doing? (While some say none of this matters, they don't understand it, its too complicated, those same people have just had or know someone who has had their homes foreclosed on, and maybe that's why they should care to understand.)
Did you know and do you like the fact that your tax money doesn't actually pay for one service rendered by the government to the American People? Most of it goes to pay for interest on money borrowed from the federal reserve.
Are you comfortable with that?
Do you know what NAFTA is? Do you know why that's bad for America?
Do you know what rights the Patriot Act stripped away from us?
Do you know we are nearing if not at 10 trillion dollars in debt?
Hmm, how can we promise "FREE" healthcare and "FREE" education from pre-school through college when we are that financially screwed? There is nothing for "FREE", it's not as if some magical education and healthcare fairy is going to drop from the sky and wave a wand over all of us, magically granting these things to us, OUR TAXES WILL BE RAISED AND THAT MONEY WILL BE REDISTRIBUTED TO HELP THESE PROGRAMS/PEOPLE, (sounds a little like communism or socialism)
Do you know that the democrats want to raise taxes and extend that debt to a few more trillion dollars?
Do you know that if you pick a candidate who has all the same monetary backing (banking/investment firms and legal firms too) as all the ones before that you really aren't voting for a change, just more of the same in a new suit? They protect the interests of the people who put them in office, not you or me.
Do you understand it doesn't matter if you vote Republican or Democrat anymore... you either support corporate welfare or national welfare.
Do you understand that the more the federal government gets involved in our school systems the worse the public education becomes? Review our educational scores compared with the world for the last 50 years.
If you want government healthcare, go see a vet of this or any war and ask them how it's been working out for them. I am an ex military wife, and I know all to well what it is.
And back to the war, the insurgency is caused by our presence, the attacks on 9/11 were caused by our horrible foreign policy. If you don't believe this, find me the statements by the Al-Qaida that says, "we just kill Americans because we hate them!" Study the foreign relations with the middle east for the last 60 years and see what happened. It's as apparent as the day is long. Talk to a middle-eastern, I've been to Kuwait, Qatar, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia, and I can tell you what they told me, WE HAVE NO BUSINESS OVER THERE and our alliance with Israel is a big problem.
Go ahead and vote for Obama or Clinton, or worse yet McCain. I am voting for the one candidate that opened my eyes to all of these issues, who is the only one who has been talking about them and respecting the constitution for over 30 years, with a voting record to prove it.
Ron Paul wants to stop the war! NOW!
Ron Paul wants to eleminate NAFTA, now!
Ron Paul wants to get rid of the FED RESERVE (the last president that tried was Kennedy, we see how that worked out)
NO MORE UNCOSTITUTIONAL FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.
Ron Paul wants to leave education up to the teachers and parents and kids, not impose more NCLB ACTS which all teachers HATE! (If you don't know about that, look it up before you argue with me half way. I am now married to a teacher.)
Ron Paul believes in letting young Americans opt out of Social Security so they can invest in HSA's because SS won't be there for us when it's our time)
RON PAUL wants to fix our horrible foreign relations and stop our world empire, we were never supposed to be an EMPIRE.
Ron Paul wants to give us back all of our civil liberties.
What other candidate is saying this much?
I can not shout, or be angry, or insult, or threaten, because THE TRUTH IS NOT TOLD TO YOU, IT IS ONLY REALIZED.
I hope you die. Are you happy now?
I loved the last comment but hope to develope a
write-in campaign for Ron Paul. Resulting from
investigation of my efforts to Google "Federal Reserve Fraud" See G. Edward Griffin's interview with Norman Dodds, a former banker who knew their goal was to keep us in WAR to fatten the debt for their benefit(see itnterest we pay) And google Sherry Peel Jackson, Former IRS agent to see their Facilitating efforts by ATF, FBI, use to set up Mafia style Gestapo activity to hide. legal tax was only on federal payrolls till about WW2,men were military and accepted the tax then IRS codes dropped a word or two inorder to add ambiguity confusion to juries and Judges. But when the true terrorists are identified, Ron Paul will prevail. Only he understands the problem. But when the people see that these terrorists funded Adolph Hitler while they funded US, Things will change and change is what seems to sell.