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Did Greenspan err on ARMs

25 Mar 2008 10:49 am

Greenspan takes a lot of flak for saying, in 2004, that more people should take on adjustable rate mortgages. Once again, I rise to his defense. What he said was not crazy: you pay your bank a very large premium to get them to assume the interest rate risk. Unless you think that you are better than the bank at estimating future inflation, you cannot make yourself economically better off by taking out a fixed rate mortgage--which is to say, you are about as likely to end up better off by taking out a sensible ARM as you are to end up worse off. My parents had an ARM years before it was cool, and we didn't end up in the poorhouse.

What people did with that advice was insane: they acted as if an ARM was a fixed rate mortgage, which is to say, as if there were no interest rate risk. They borrowed money right up to the limits of their ability to pay at the teaser rate. Some of them thought that rising prices would enable them to refinance before it reset (and to be fair, some of them were right); some of them appear not to have thought at all.

How much responsibility does Greenspan bear for this? With hindsight, obviously, I wouldn't say that sort of thing again. But was it obvious, prospectively, that people were going to use ARMs to leverage themselves to the hilt--and that banks were going to let them? It wasn't obvious to me at the time. And the people I heard criticising him at the time clearly didn't understand that borrowers pay a premium for fixed-rate debt, so I'm reluctant to credit their incredible analysis of matters economic. But perhaps there were brighter voices making the case, and I simply didn't encounter them.

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Comments (30)

I'm glad an 'economist' actually believes that ARMs are priced based on the yield curve.

Did everyone else move to target pricing?

I have only had ARMs for the exact reasons you cite. On the other hand, I make sure my mortgage is never more than about 10 percent of my salary, so that if it goes up a couple of hundred dollars a month, it's no big deal. And, as you point out, every once in a while it drops a couple of hundred dollars. I think I'm a little ahead over the last 18 years of ARMs, but I admit I've never sat down to figure it out.

One other benefit... with ARMs, you never have to think about refinancing, with all the whopping fees that come along with it. The way I think about it, you're getting an automatic refi every year... for free. This year it moved up a little, but, with the current trends, I could see a fairly dramatic drop at the next reset.

Just one economist's revealed preference....

I hear you to an extent and completely agree with your description of how people misused ARMs.

But I think the problem was WHEN he made the comments. If mortgage rates at that time had been, say, 8%, you'd have a better point. But I know that in December 2004, I got a 30-year fixed at 5.5%. You gotta say that the likelihood of rates falling appreciably below those historically low levels was pretty low.

I would take a flyer and bet that when your parents took out their ARMs, rates were probably at the other end of the spectrum.

What people did with that advice was insane: they acted as if an ARM was a fixed rate mortgage, which is to say, as if there were no interest rate risk. They borrowed money right up to the limits of their ability to pay at the teaser rate.

Yes and no. While many people were clearly foolish, you can't ignore the fraudulent and rampant occurence of referring to the payment rate as the interest rate, i.e. saying that if you're obligated to pay 4%, during which the debt rises 6%, then you have a "4% mortgage", when in reality, the interest rate is 10%. Four percent in that case is not a "teaser rate"; it is a "fraud rate".

People always misuse things. That's why smart older people always assume the worst. And if they're real smart they keep their assumptions to themselves.

I think the big thing you're missing is risk aversion. One of the major economic functions banks perform is to allow individuals to be risk averse with their money (by putting it in a low interest savings account), while letting the economy be risk neutral overall (by lending that money out).

From what I remember of last year's game theory class, risk aversion increases as the proportion of your income in question increases. Since the proportion of your income spent on housing is HUGE there is a high risk aversion factor at play, and given that, a fixed rate makes more sense for most people.

Of course in the UK floating mortgages are the common place ones and fixed rates are the new fangled innovation (and being blamed for the nasty surprise people are getting when the fixed rate ends).

Close, but no cigar. As zidane09 correctly points out there is no sense in getting an adjustable rate when fixed rates were near historic lows. And while on one hand how was Greenspan to know that people would buy ARMS for the teaser rate, unable to afford even the floor on their ARM, on the other hand he shouldn't have spoken out on a subject on which he was ignorant.

Unless you think that you are better than the bank at estimating future inflation, you cannot make yourself economically better off by taking out a fixed rate mortgage.

It's not just inflation -- I'm much better than the bank at estimating how long I'll be in my house. The bank gave me a 30-year 5.0% fixed rate mortgage in part because they didn't think it was likely they actually have to wait 30 years for the payoff. But I know there's a pretty high chance that we will hold that mortgage for the full time period. Which is also why I knew it was a good deal to pay the points to get the lowest available rate. And, of course, if it turns out later that a 5% fixed is a bad deal for me, I can pay it off (and refinance or not), but if it's a bad deal for the bank, tough -- the bank has no recourse.

What Peter said. My mortgage is a fixed rate, not because I'm under any particular illusion that I'm saving money compared to something else, but because that way changes in my payments are one less thing to worry about.

And that's worth quite a bit.

Chris: "When the fixed rate ends"?

If it ends, it's not what we Americans call a fixed-rate mortgage, where the rate is, well, fixed, for the entire duration of the mortgage.

How's it work in the UK?

Unless you think that you are better than the bank at estimating future inflation, you cannot make yourself economically better off by taking out a fixed rate mortgage ...

Short answer: No.

Long answer: If they enter into an ARM, in the event of higher interest rates, John and/or Jane Homeowner may incur costs in excess of the higher interest rates (e.g., costs of adjusting to the higher monthly payments, or an inability to meet other financial commitments). The bank is able to bear the risk of higher interest rates at less cost than John and/or Jane Homeowner, so John and/or Jane can pay the bank something to bear that risk for them. That arrangement makes both sides better off.

I third zidane09's point. Greenspan's advice was horrible (and I said so at the time, so this isn't mere hindsight on my part), because he knew that interest rates were clearly below their recent historical average. An ARM makes sense if: (1) you plan on selling the house before the reset; or (2) you think rates will remain approximately the same or fall. When interest rates are at a 40 year low, the likelihood of item # 2 happening is pretty slim.

"...and that banks were going to let them?"

this is one of the big problems with our current banking schema--ultimately, the only thing the 'bank' is gambling with, is Your checkbook.

Killing 'legal tender' laws and allowing competing currencies, would go far to stamp out these potentials for abuse...while at it, we should ash-can the FDIC.

"Money for Nothing" might make for fine Dire Straits lyrics, but it, too, is Fantasy.

ash-can the FDIC.

Really? So you think bank runs are not an issue? If not, can you explain what harm the FDIC does that outweighs the stabilizing effects of it's firewall against bankruns?

Megan,

Can you clarify your statement that "borrowers pay a premium for fixed-rate debt"? I'm wondering what premium borrowers were paying for a fixed rate that weren't applied to an ARM?

"can you explain what harm the FDIC does that outweighs the stabilizing effects of it's firewall against bankruns?"

The FDIC is nothing more than an umbilical cord to the Public Treasury.

The 'I', in FDIC, is a Fraud.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

the only ones 'worried' about 'bank runs' are those that are mismanaging their bank..



Megan,

Has anyone ever disagreed with you, you ended up being wrong, and they ended up being right? It seems like you've only acknowledged so far that both of you can be wrong.

It's all about risk. If you live paycheck to paycheck, obviously that is risky already and you shouldn't take on more risk. However if you have some money saved up, and you're making more than you spend, you can take on the risk of an ARM and be better off because you have the ability to pay a portion of it off early if rates go up (and therefore transfer the risk from yourself to the bank).

"Can you clarify your statement that "borrowers pay a premium for fixed-rate debt"? I'm wondering what premium borrowers were paying for a fixed rate that weren't applied to an ARM?"

Fixed rate mortgages generally (almost always) have a higher interest rate at the time of signing than an adjustable rate mortgage. This difference in interest rate is called a "premium."

The interest rates on fixed rate mortgage is higher than an the interest rate on an ARM in general. If the offers I got were any indication, about .8% higher. Which doesn't sound like a ton, but thats probably 10-15000 thousand over the life of the mortgage if paid over time.

I've never been a fan of ARMs. A teach in Junior high told me about how ARMs totally screwed a ton of people back in the 70s when interest rates went sky high.

I think a lot of the bad press ARMs get is because of confusion between the concept of an adjustable-rate loan and how they've often been packaged - with an exceptionally low "teaser" rate for the first 3 or so years. There's no need for an ARM to have that teaser rate, and given the choice of that or a better interest rate the latter should almost always win.

The problem is that lenders, loan originators and customers participated in a fantasy world together; that all that mattered was the low initial rate, because "of course" in 3 years time the borrower could refinance at a cheaper long-term rate with 3 years of payments and a chunk of new-found equity because "of course" house prices would continue to rise.

This was monumentally poor advice in most cases and bad for both the homebuyer and whoever ended up holding the loan. Possibly criminally poor if deception was involved, and possibly improveable by regulation in future.

However, there are certainly people for whom an ARM makes sense. Most of those were NOT those being sold these loans.

For many people, whose ability to manage their money is poor, the security of a fixed rate may be worth the money in terms of avoiding uncertainty.

What people did with that advice was insane

Actually, Megan, I think there's a case to be made that what people did with that advice was not insane, but rather, predictably irrational. It's unreasonable, in some circumstances, to assume the existence of homo economus, of rational actors. Greenspan made the fundamental mistake of assuming that most consumers were like him or you - that presented with a set of options, they'd pause to carefully evaluate the relative risks and rewards, and if they then chose an option with a greater degree of risk, they'd make allowances to accomodate that risk. It turned out that most people behaved, well, like most people - presented with a chance to pay less, they seized it. They then proceeded to spend as much (or more) than they earned, as they always had before, without making allowance for the greater risk they'd assumed. And the result was a disaster.

Why should we have assumed that American consumers would suddenly start to display financial rationality and responsibility with respect to ARMs, when they haven't done the same with credit cards, retirement savings, or almost anything else?

As someone who briefly traded this product, I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to get. Well, regular ARMs are pretty crazy, but, hybrid ARMs, which have a fixed period between 5 and 10 years and are about half of ARM mortgages, can be a good idea.

1. You pay a ton for the option to refinance along with 30 years of fixed payments. For someone who doesn't intend to stay in their house for very long (moving because of kids/job/raise, like most people) you can save a lot on interest. The basic rule of thumb is to have the fixed part of the ARM be the same period as you plan to live in the house.

2. Almost all of the value to the investor comes after the fixed period. That means that any sucker who is paying after the rates reset is great for the bank (assuming you don't default...), so the bank will give you a lower rate on the fixed portion on the expectation that you won't refi. So, if you're on your game and refinance before the rates reset you're being subsidized by the non-refiers. This means you should probably have enough money around to make sure that you can refi when the reset comes.

Now, that said, if you're stretching so hard to make your interest payments that the only way to do it is to get an ARM, you should get a smaller house. Also, don't get an option ARM - that's just psycho.

Kyle-

There's a place for all of these products, even the ones you think are for psychos. My wife and I are in a 5/1 option ARM, and are entirely delighted with it.

When we decided to buy our home several years back, we ran into a problem. Neither of us had ever been significantly indebted, and so by the twisted logic of the financial sector, we were deemed to have an insufficient credit history. My wife was carrying student loans, so that helped. My own wages and assets didn't impress any mortgage brokers - eventually, I was forced to resort to alternative documentation, submitting years of bills and rent checks, and signed recommendations from my utility providers, to demonstrate my fiscal responsibility. Even so, we couldn't find anyone interested in issuing a 30-yr fixed rate mortgage for less than subprime rates.

Enter the option ARM. One smarmy broker offered us this product, at a terrific interest rate. We jumped. We'll be out of the condo within a year or so, anyway, because of lifecycle constraints, so the timeframe didn't much matter. And it's an option, which is to say that paying off the principal is left to the borrower's discretion for the initial term - in this case, the first five years. So every month, we mail a check to the mortgage company, calculated as if we're amortizing a 30-year loan. We don't have to do that, but it seems fiscally prudent - and in this declining market, we're grateful we have. The bank doesn't make it easy - they refused to allow automatic transfers set up for an amortizing loan (they insist their system can't handle that for an option-ARM) and they don't offer it as an option on the monthly slip they mail us. They've made it very clear they'd prefer we weren't doing this - that we'd just pay off the interest, and wait for the balloon rate to hit. But they can't stop us from being responsible. Which is why I love my option ARM.

Clearly it is irresponsible for anyone to make technically correct observations without preceding them with 30 minutes of legal boilerplate to ensure that idiots who can't even remember high school finance class don't take it the wrong way.

The only other solution is to have IQ tests before you are allowed to listen or read the "adults" news programs.

I wonder if Megan can go one day without accusing someone of being "daft," "mad," "lunatic," or "insane."

even I, a financial neophyte, thought "WTF?!" when Greenspan went yowling off about ARMs when fixed rates were at a historical low.

But then, I know math and statistics, and thought that when are less than , the risk potential with an ARM was just too bloody high. Which is why at present I have a 15-year fixed.

My bank person was very happy with me when we discussed mortgages et al. and I told him I wasn't looking at anything aside from 40% down and fixed rates.

Aside from anything else, the peace of mind knowing exactly what my necessary payments are each month is priceless. Especially necessary when one's income can be sporadic.

Clearly it is irresponsible for anyone to make technically correct observations without preceding them with 30 minutes of legal boilerplate to ensure that idiots who can't even remember high school finance class don't take it the wrong way.

I read the 2 page standard loan agreement on my house. It's a really simple form. Anyone who graduated high school can understand what it says. Whether it's a good deal or not does however require some calculations and knowledge of what a fair premium is. This is the non-intuitive part, but there are plenty of amortization calculators free on the web to do the number crunching for you.

Although, the form IS simple enough that rough estimates can do the job in a pinch - the max interest is roughly 2x what the intro rate is, therefore, worst case scenario my payment will be double the intro amount... can I afford that, yes or no?

When we decided to buy our home several years back, we ran into a problem. Neither of us had ever been significantly indebted, and so by the twisted logic of the financial sector, we were deemed to have an insufficient credit history. My wife was carrying student loans, so that helped. My own wages and assets didn't impress any mortgage brokers - eventually, I was forced to resort to alternative documentation, submitting years of bills and rent checks, and signed recommendations from my utility providers, to demonstrate my fiscal responsibility. Even so, we couldn't find anyone interested in issuing a 30-yr fixed rate mortgage for less than subprime rates.

I'm glad to hear this, and not in a shadenfreude way. It was exactly this that happened to me, minus the "advantage" (!) of a wife with debts. I hadn't gotten a credit card until six months prior, so I had "no financial history" and NO ONE would want to deal with me except on subprime terms. What's more, I would have been stellar if I had simply gotten a credit card earlier and diverted the exact same purchases I had made those two years prior, but via credit card and paying the bill every month.

What's even MORE, I discussed this with Arnold Kling (of econlog.econlib.org) via email, and he refused to admit this was a flaw in the consumer credit system, and even REFUSED TO ADMIT I WAS AN OUTLIER to an otherwise reliable system. If you're not outraged enough yet, AFTER I told him I'd give him my full credit report so I could substantiate my claims, he alleged that I just want him to "take me at my word and agree"!

So, let's summarize:

-Steady employment for 18 months
-Stable job and income
-No debt, ever
-Requested home debt would be 1/6 of gross, even at higher rate they offered!
-Personal liquid assets valued at ~half the house.
-Documentable history of paying EVERY SINGLE OTHER BILL.
-No dependents, no judgments against me.

And the best offer from a bank? 10% on a 3/1 adjustable!!!!

And I'm classified with subprime people! I'm classified as an unusual case!

(Luckily, the credit union I had been with since age six actually wised up and made a realistic offer.)

Anyone want to try their hand at justifying all of this?

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