Lots of people are talking about John McCain's lunatic pronouncement that "there’s strong evidence" for the proposition that thimerosol, a mercury-based preservative used in vaccines, causes autism. This is nonsense on stilts. While it might once have been a viable theory, there is now multi-national evidence that removing thimerosol from vaccines (as the US did in 2001) causes no decline in the rate of autism. Why, people ask wonderingly, is the good senator wandering around claiming otherwise?
I offer two explanations, neither of them mutually exclusive:
1. The desperate parents who believe that thimerosol caused their child's autism are highly motivated people with a very good chance of voting for anyone who says he believes them. The researchers who study thimerosol probably weren't going to vote for McCain anyway. No one else votes on the issue.
2. The vast expansion of the state means that we expect our representatives to have opinions on everything from missile defense to flame-retardant pajamas. No one could possibly learn about every subject we expect them to know, even if he were not spending sixteen hours a day doing the grip-and-grin with voters, lobbyists, donors, and other politicians.
"No one else votes on the issue."
No one votes on this issue in particular, but it does contribute to a general sense that McCain is either anti-scientific, not that clever, doesn't care about things that aren't his pet issues, or whatever. Which maybe isn't enough by itself to swing an independent voter, but these sorts of things add up.
I think explanation #2 is a nice insight.
If anyone was going to demagogue pseudoscience to win support from parents of injured children willing to cling to anyone who's willing to give them someone, anyone to blame for their child's illness, I'd figure it would be John Edwards
I think a Dilbert comic explained it best. Something like...
Dogbert: [addressing crowd while running for office] If my opponent gets elected, terrorists will use your skulls as salad bowls. If you vote for me, I'll take money from the people who didn't, and give it to you. Pollution has vitamins!
Member of crowd: I like how he makes me feel.
One of the things that bothers me most about McCain is that he seems to be particularly susceptible to the "policy by anecdote" syndrome. (A term I just made up. Like it?) And McCain seems to have a particularly virulent strain, where his force of personality backed with emotional anecdotes overwhelms more reasoned evidence and actually gets things to happen.
The way explanation no. 2 is phrased suggests that Megan believes that missile defense and the safety of consumer products, as well as the safety of vaccines and drugs, are matters the government has no business getting involved with.
There are many areas as to which I am inclined to buy the argument that he government has overreached itself and is doing harm. These three are not among them.
(That I think these are legitimate areas for government involvement does not imply that I expect candidates for office to be familiar with the scientific/technical issues involved. I would like to have a President who would (1) appoint technically competent people and (2) insulate them from pressure from those whose financial interests are affected by their decisions.)
Libertarians, have at it.
Science issues are extremely important to me, but #2 resonates a lot with me. I do not expect McCain to be personally aware of the fact that the link has been entirely debunked, and so I don't really have a problem with what he said.
I'm with Drew on this one, though it would be nice if McCain would issue a correction, now that this has become newsworthy.
I don't mind if a politician is ignorant on occasion, but I'd like some evidence he's willing to learn.
I think that the explanation is #2 and hope that, if elected, he would (as roac said) appoint technically competent people. McCain has been campaigning heavily, leaving him little time for independent research, and this doesn't seem like a core issue for him. For him to have a sympathetic reaction to the anguished parents isn't so bad, as long as any policy is based more firmly on evidence.
It does worry me a tiny bit, though. If he makes many statements as far-fetched as this one, then as Andrew said, it will add up.
Number 2 is absolutely right. In the 1930s, H.L. Mencken complained about the spread of government by pointing to a particular agency decision that had gotten so little attention in the press that he almost missed it. Today, nobody can even keep up with the output of Congress; the typical legislator spends about 3 minutes considering any bill that legislator votes on, and most people's biggest complaint seems to be that the government isn't taking on even more projects.
At least McCain has sensible views on trade and (almost miraculously) ethanol.
Explanation number 2 is one of the most comically perfect examples of tailoring content to your audience. John McCain's opinions on autism: just another example of big government keeping down the man!
"Why, people ask wonderingly, is the good senator wandering around claiming otherwise?"
Perhaps because our national government has said so.
I would be very surprised to find any presidential candidate to be conversant with the latest medical research.
An issued correction indicating that he did not know of this latest research would be appropriate.
One may as well be upset that McCain doesn't know the latest advances in M-theory.
Meagan wrote:
The researchers who study thimerosol probably weren't going to vote for McCain anyway.
What do you base this on?
"Why, people ask wonderingly, is the good senator wandering around claiming otherwise?"
\
Perhaps because our national government has said so.
Posted by mith
The case involved stipulated recompense for damage caused by vaccines, not thimerisol.
In that case, a child with a mitochondrial disorder was simultaneously given 9 vaccinations. The child rapidly developed many very severe symptoms. Civil court does not require certainty.
While there has been work to show no connection between thimerisol and autism, and work to show that vaccines in general can not be responsible for increased autism rates, I don't think there has been work done showing no link whatsoever between vaccines and autism, just that any such link would be so small that vaccination was the lesser risk by a large degree.
"The vast expansion of the state means that we expect our representatives to have opinions on everything from missile defense to flame-retardant pajamas. No one could possibly learn about every subject we expect them to know..."
DaVinci '08!
It gets worse. Now that McCain has offered his opinion on the issue, he can never ever change his mind, lest he be branded a flip-flopper.
DaVinci '08!
Wow, Njorl, what a great idea! And to think that he (Leonardo) still has a good chance of defeating Mickey Mouse in the primaries!
<muttering>And now I am to peel off that bumper sticker how exactly?</muttering>
In the cosmic scheme of things, McCain's faux pas on a highly technical issue is trivial compared to Obama's assertion that he would invade an unstable nuclear-armed ally - Pakistan - to act against Islamic extremists.
Presumably a Presidential candidate would be informed regarding critical foreign policy considerations. Epidemiological analysis of vaccine side-effects, not so much.
Explanation #2A: McCain is very influenced on this issue by Don Imus, who's a mercury militia crackpot.
You’re right, in the grand scheme of things it probably won’t matter much one way or other. Worst case scenario is that McCain comes out against federal laws requiring vaccinations (leaving it up to the States) which isn’t exactly something that proponents of federalism and parental rights would oppose. As an earlier poster pointed out, even if McCain was wrong about this rather technical issue, he’s still right on trade and ethanol. I’d add to that he’s also right on entitlement reform, right on fighting against corporate welfare, pork barrel spending and earmarks, right on tort reform, and right on supporting free market reforms in health care.
FTR though, McCain was asked about autism when he campaigned in New Hampshire (click on my name for the Youtube video of the exchange) and basically said that he wasn’t sure why it was happening but thought that the increase in autism was most likely caused by changes in diet or our environment and he supported more research into finding the cause(s) and treatment. Not exactly what I’d consider a “lunatic pronouncement” and I suspect that had we a transcript or a Youtube video of the exchange in Texas, we’d see similar caveats and modifiers.
And now I am to peel off that bumper sticker how exactly?
We have a solution: The Illudium PU-39 Explosive Space Modulator can peel the car off the bumper sticker.
From Eric J, above:
One of the things that bothers me most about McCain is that he seems to be particularly susceptible to the "policy by anecdote" syndrome. (A term I just made up. Like it?)
That seems to be what happened to McCain - per this story from last November, some Iowa moms lobbied every candidate they could get ahold of and bent their ears on thimerosal:
EXCERPT:
Wessels not only is pushing for more funding into autism, she's prodding the presidential officeseekers to look into whether mercury poisoning from a vaccine preservative is a major cause. She points to the preservative thimerosal, which is 49 percent ethyl mercury by weight. Wessels said the safety of thimerosal was never tested, that it's creation came in 1929 before the FDA was created in 1940s, and thimerosal "was just grandfathered in" by the FDA as acceptable.
Sam has high levels of mercury, and that can only come, she said, from dental amalgams, consuming fish or environmental factors like coal emissions.
"I believe thimerosal is the major contributor... Not all parents believe it to be the cause. I don't believe it to be the only cause, but it is part of it," Wessels said. "Doctors don't want to go anywhere near the mercury issue, and that's what I'd like to change."
...
Barb Romkema of Le Mars, Iowa, is the parent of a 27-year-old autistic son and also works with A-CHAMP. Romkema in 2000 began her own dogged autism activism.
"There are thousands of us out there who have discovered the same truth -- that our sons were poisoned" by thimerosal, Romkema said.
She, along with Wessels, questioned McCain in the summer in Le Mars. Romkema has steered most of her work toward the Iowa Legislature, in the quest to have vaccines with thimerosal banned in Iowa. Having Wessels working the cause is helpful, Romkema said, because it is tiring to keep working for public policy changes.
"I am just superproud of Lin. I'm thrilled with what she's done," Romkema said.
Wessels said a Urinary Porphyrin Profile Analysis can show whether a person has mercury poisoning, and she wants it required that a UPPA is done on every child diagnosed as autistic. She had long suspected that Sam had a high mercury level, so in March he underwent a UPPA -- coincidentally, the same day Wessels questioned McCain in Sioux City.
"His was considered toxic. This makes perfect sense -- the higher the toxicity, the lower the function, the more impaired that child is," Wessels said.
A UPPA rating greater that 200 is out of the safe range, and Sam's was 254. When Wessels, Sam and many relatives attended the Monday campaign stop by McCain in Rock Rapids, she delivered to him 208 high UPPAs from children in 35 states.
"This is proof positive from people in 35 states that kids with autism have mercury poisoning," she said.
She's been gratified to speak with six presidential candidates, although Wessels feels McCain, who's she seen three times, has been the most receptive. The other candidates include Republicans Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee and Tommy Thompson, and Democrats John Edwards and Barack Obama.
END
I was all set to blame New Hampshire.
Unfortunately, the claimed autism-vaccine link will be a long time in dying, if ever, because people generally do not understand:
1. Because some forms of an element are poisonous, does not mean all of them are.
2. Correllation does not equal causation.
The bulk of early childhood vaccinations are recommended in the 6-18 month timespan, while autism is commonly manifested when the child gains comprehensive vocal skills and motor control, usually 18-24 months.
I'm still waiting for a citation to the Greenspan economics textbook on which McCain is relying for his knowledge of economic matters. Perhaps, Megan can enlighten me. Oh, that's right, she's not an economist either.
I suppose the gates of hell don't count.
Nope.
Rhetorical flourish > specific geographical location, obviously.
You think he's trying to come up with a polite explanation for why the Democratic candidates are so autistic in their economic thinking?
Perhaps Thorley is right and McCain was misquoted, but otherwise I think we're looking at either 2A, 2B, or 2C:
2A. McCain hired incompetent staffers who failed to find out, not only that there's a scientific consensus against the autism-thimerosol link, but also that you don't need to be a scientist to understand one disproof: thimerosol hasn't been used in childrens' vaccines in the USA since 2001, but the rate of diagnosed cases of autism kept right on climbing. Doesn't give me much confidence in his ability to pick a White House staff or appoint competent department heads and judges.
2B. McCain shot off his mouth without ever asking his staff to check into it.
2C. McCain shot off his mouth against the advice of his staff.
Whatever, expect ignorant decisionmaking in the White House to continue, if not to get even worse than Dubya's administration - because where Obama has put forth definite proposals, they're just as bad in spite of appearing to be the product of much work...
cf. Opinion Journal piece 'Wrong About Mexico' today in Opinion Journal of the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120450518044806477.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries
Yet the simple common sense issue of why the Amish who have no vaccinations do not get Autism is not raised.
Medical science and studies are flawed horrid things that often contain more polls than actual truth.
Now, since you all buy the vaccinations certainly are not the cause of any autism due to the science studies, I'm sure you'll be firm believers in global warming, which also has strong scientific backing.
Whew. Tough audience. Some here had better hope that they never get held to the standard (the word "incompetence" and "ignorant" being applied) they're applying, namely, having every word in response to a question on an arcane issue parsed to the nth degree.
To put the "strong evidence" remark (with which I do not agree) in context, the article goes on:
"McCain said there’s "divided scientific opinion" on the matter, with "many on the other side that are credible scientists that are saying that’s not the cause of it."
It would seem likely that he was trying to give a diplomatically balanced answer to an anguished mother. (The truth would hardly do: it's an act of God, i.e., we don't know what causes it, and there's nothing we can now do about it).
The whole issue is tragic, since mothers (in particular) of children with problems tend to blame either themselves, or someone else (to avoid blaming themselves), even if no one is actually to blame at all.
Now, since you all buy the vaccinations certainly are not the cause of any autism due to the science studies, I'm sure you'll be firm believers in global warming, which also has strong scientific backing.
Uh, CR, the difference is that the negative control experiment - removing thiomersol - has been done, with (as I understand it) no statistically significant diminution of the autism rate.
Kinda tough to blame thiomersol for autism in those not exposed to it. The problem with climatology is precisely the inability to conduct such control experiments.
for what it's worth, Canada got rid of thimerosol 15 years ago, and the autism rates are increasing at the same rate as in the US
So, I watched the (or a) Larry King show on autism and the doc they had on wasn't very clear about thimersol when asked. I mean, he made it sound plausible. I've been looking for the transcript, but the one they have doesn't mention it and seems to have a different doc. Am I imagining this? Did he do multiple shows on autism.
Anyway, if I watched that particular show and didn't know anything about it, I would come away with the idea that the link isn't debunked.
This is a dangerous statement by John McCain. It's not just nonsense. Parents are choosing not to immunize their kids because of the false propaganda put out by the media regarding the Thimerisol scare.
I know people who have an eldest child diagnosed with autism who decided on the basis of the faulty research of the media not to immunize their second child. I pray the little girl never comes in contact with a measles carrier.
Okay, here's the part of the transcript where the doctor talked about autism and vaccines.
"KARTZINEL: Well, I think we have to be open to the idea that if vaccines are causing a problem, that we have to be able to identify it and let the powers know about it. There's something called a VARES report that pediatricians are supposed to fill out when they think that there's a vaccine-related injury, or there might be something due to a vaccine, but they tend not to do that.
First of all, we're never educated in doing that. And second of all, we hear somebody calling up and saying, my kid just got the shot, he's screaming non stop for 10 hours. I'm not going to fill out a VARES report. KING: Simply put, what is autism and why is it so different in everybody?"
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/27/lkl.01.html
I found that answer a bit confusing.
Oh, the point of my comment above, since *I* wasn't very clear, is that there is a lot of misinformation around and it sounds like McCain is caught up in that.
CR, interesting observation. Of course the Amish do a lot of things differently from the rest of us; maybe including make their own bread. About 40 years ago evidence began to develop that spina bifida, that's where your spinal column doesn't close in development and the spinal canal is open in the lumbar region, is reduced in incidence by folic acid supplementation. If I'm not mistaken, folic acid supplentation in store bought bread was then increased. In a somewhat unrelated effect, it may be that many autistic kids would have been spontaneous abortions, being dependent for survival on a higher level of folate, but that the increased folate has allowed them to come to term.
CR,
This link suggests otherwise..
Explanation #3:
When you spend all day talking about things, you are going to make some embarrassing errors. This is true regardless of how smart you are, but is especially true as the time talking gets to the point where it necessarily subtracts from the time one can spend reading.
Note for example, Obama's recently saying that Senator Jay Rockefeller voted against the Iraq war (AUMF), which is apparently in error, if today's "gotcha" postings are themselves correct.
Also note the silly attacks on Rush Limbaugh for all the errors of fact he's made -- which are actually remarkably few in number given that he's talked for 3 hours a day for a decade, even before taking into account how many of those hours he was high. (One can of course attack Rush for his views, as well as point out how particular errors of fact ought to affect our views.)
No doubt Hillary has also made such errors, although none come to mind today.
Yet the simple common sense issue of why the Amish who have no vaccinations do not get Autism is not raised.
To the extent the claim is accurate, it probably doesn't get raised because it is too easily explained away. First, the Amish maintain a close-knit community that attracts relatively few outsiders, therefore Amish bloodlines have a very limited amount of genetic mixing. Moreover if you, like the Amish, were to reject many forms of modern medicine including vaccination, and then live a lifestyle premised on physical labor, what is that going to do for promoting hardiness in the stock?
I'm going to speculate that part of McCain's receptiveness to the theory might have to do with Rep. Dan Burton's (R-IN) pushing of the idea.
for us young Grashoppers about, anyone have links to the actual studies being bandied about/discussed
Grasshopper: folic acid & Spina Bifida: Journal of OB Gyn of the British Commonwealth; the study was done in the Carribean. You might look at 'PubMed,' the National Library of Medicine medical literature indexing service.
as a parent with an autistic child, I follow the news on the condition very carefully. The results referred to are recent. Autism has only very recently entered mainstream consciousness. The scientific community is only now really beginning to grapple with the issue.
There is a lot of speculation surrounding autism. I would tend to go with explanation #2.
A few thoughts:
1. the mother to whom McCain responded began her question with a statement about a settlement by the national vaccine injury compensation program in favor a child with "encephalopathy" and "symptoms of autism" following vaccines. While there is NO EVIDENCE that vaccines can cause autism, a syndrome called "acute disseminated encephalomyelitis" CAN OCCUR following vaccines, as well as after viral illnesses. Importantly, the frequency following measles vaccine is estimated at 1 in a million, while the estimate for frequency following measles infection is 1 in 1000. I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine. But my point is that the manner in which the mother predicated her question to McCain was tricky.
I cannot find any easily accessible information about this case via Google, so I don't know if the child in question has actually been diagnosed with autism, or has encephalopathy with "symptoms" of autism, which would put a different interpretation on the settlement.
2. CR: Found some news articles referencing the observation that the Amish don't vaccinate and don't have autism. However, a report in the Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal (vol 25 issue 12 pg 1182 from Dec 2006) reported in a survey of over 300 Old-order Amish families in Arthur, Illinois that 84% of families with children had fully vaccinated their children and 12% of families had given their children some vaccinations. So the statement that the Amish don't vaccinate their children is not necessarily true. Also there is a report from 2006 here:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/Seizures/tb/2954
reporting the discovery a gene in Amish families that leads to a seizure disorder and autism. So I'm not convinced that the statemtent that the Amish don't have autistic children is true, either. They are of a different genetic stock than other children in the US, and I wouldn't be surprised if autism in Amish families looked different from autism in other genetic backgrounds.
3. There is a good study from California published last month:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424?ordinalpos=9&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
in the Archives of General Psychiatry (vol 65 issue 1 pg 15) in which the authors tracked the incidence of autism in California since 1999-2000. Thimerosal has been excluded from vaccines since around 2001, so if thimerosal in vaccines was linked to development of autism, you would predict that the incidence of autism would drop after thimerosal was excluded. However, the rate of new diagnoses of autism in California has increased since 2001, which makes it less likely that thimerosal is the culprit.
4. McCain was clearly pandering to a devastated mother. I think he did pretty well to sympathize with her but still work in the facts that 1) autism IS increasing in incidence 2) no one knows why 3) it's a devastating disease that is worthy of more research and 4) many credible scientists think that vaccines aren't the cause of autism. I wish he hadn't thrown the anti-vaccine movement a bone, but hey, he's a politician.
This just in:
OJ Simpson is INNOCENT
Mercury/thimerosal does NOT cause autism
If you believe those things I have a bridge to sell you.
Folks - look at the EVIDENCE. There is enough on the other side to crush this argument and support McCain. You just need to open your EYES AND READ. Don't be pharma's toy - just say no.
This link suggests the increase in autism diagnoses is offset by a decrease in mental retardation diagnoses, and therefore may be a change in diagnosis, not reality.
There are very likely genetic factors realted to assortative mating that have to do w autism.
In the silicon valley where the incidence is highest, this may haveloosely to do with computer geeks mating w other like computer geeks.
here is a link to Baron-Cohen who has done soemremarkable work on autism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen
P.S. Jiminy's nephew: If you know anyone in the medical field (physician, med student, RN, nurse practitioner, etc) who has access to UpToDate, there is a great review of all studies (both those that purport to find a link and those that purport to find no link) published on thimerosal and autism.
Here is the abstract for one paper that purported to find a link:
I Neurodevelopmental disorders after thimerosal-containing vaccines: a brief communication.
AU Geier MR; Geier DA
SO Exp Biol Med (Maywood) 2003 Jun;228(6):660-4.
We were initially highly skeptical that differences in the concentrations of thimerosal in vaccines would have any effect on the incidence rate of neurodevelopmental disorders after childhood immunization. This study presents the first epidemiologic evidence, based upon tens of millions of doses of vaccine administered in the United States, that associates increasing thimerosal from vaccines with neurodevelopmental disorders. Specifically, an analysis of the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) database showed statistical increases in the incidence rate of autism (relative risk [RR] = 6.0), mental retardation (RR = 6.1), and speech disorders (RR = 2.2) after thimerosal-containing diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis (DTaP) vaccines in comparison with thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines. The male/female ratio indicated that autism (17) and speech disorders (2.3) were reported more in males than females after thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines, whereas mental retardation (1.2) was more evenly reported among male and female vaccine recipients. Controls were employed to determine if biases were present in the data, but none were found. It was determined that overall adverse reactions were reported in similar-aged populations after thimerosal-containing DTaP (2.4 +/- 3.2 years old) and thimerosal-free DTaP (2.1 +/- 2.8 years old) vaccinations. Acute control adverse reactions such as deaths (RR = 1.0), vasculitis (RR = 1.2), seizures (RR = 1.6), ED visits (RR = 1.4), total adverse reactions (RR = 1.4), and gastroenteritis (RR = 1.1) were reported similarly after thimerosal-containing and thimerosal-free DTaP vaccines. An association between neurodevelopmental disorders and thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines was found, but additional studies should be conducted to confirm and extend this study.
Here is the response from the AAP (American Assoc of Pediatricians):
http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may03.htm
I think the AAP link is open to the public.
Folks - look at the EVIDENCE. There is enough on the other side to crush this argument and support McCain. You just need to open your EYES AND READ. Don't be pharma's toy - just say no.
Looks like thiomersol deficiency causes irrationality.
There's a short note in this month's American Scientist about the non-relation between mercury and autism, and there's an even stronger article in this month's Skeptical Inquirer on the same subject.
There's more to evidence than putting it in capital letters.
FWIW, back in 2002 the Administration wanted to add an amendment to a Homeland Security bill to immunize Eli Lilly from thimerosal lawsuits.
The amendment failed, 51-48; a few Dems crossed over to vote with Republicans, and one lone Republican,saying "I'm too old to vote for this kind of crap", voted with the (losing) Democrats.
Yup, that was Maverick himself, who was, however, briefly, a bit of a hero to the left for his bold stand against Big Pharma and the Administration cover-up (not to mention preserving a potential gold mine for the trial lawyers.)
Now the science has changed and he is a bum. Oh, well.
Quite a group of neo-authorian, security-state "libertarians" Megan has amassed here. I wonder what happened to the 2X4s?
What's your excuse?
Half Canadian :
The researchers who study thimerosol probably weren't going to vote for McCain anyway. . .
because, like almost every other person who relies on tax money for their income, they only vote for Democrats.
Americans who live off of the government, be it via food stamps, salary, or research grants, rarely vote for Republicans (the military is an exception, probably because money is not the reason they signed up).
This is balanced by people who start their own business; they rarely vote for Democrats.
What's your excuse?
My caps lock key is broken, so ultimate insight eludes me.
Hi. I'm new here. I have the opinion that the vaccine-autism uproar might be an issue of overdose. Prior to the 70s or so, the recommended shot series was 7 total from age 5 months to 18 months with not more than 2 shots per visit. By 2003, the series had increased to 21 shots from age 2 mos. to 18 mos. That's 3X more "stuff" starting at an earlier age. Also, the vials given to tiny babies are the same amount as those given to adults? (
thank God we have intelligent people liike McCain around when it comes to the truth about vaccines. Some of you people(including the author of this nonsense article) have no idea what you are talkikng about. The matter now is more opened than ever.(hear David Kirby with Imus this morning) We are winning this War and I see more and more of this every day , including the recent Vaccine Court case that conceded to a link between thimerosal and autism. Unfortunately the media gives you only one side of the story because they and the government are too influenced by drug lobbyists.
We are here and we are never going away.
Maurine
A-Champ-3rd distric SC
Kynna,
I pray we never come in contact with uneducated and unimformed people like you. (unfortunately that may be hard )
Maurine
Maurine, from your emotional investment I presume you are the mother of an autistic child, so let me gently point you to this article on the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy.
Dear Comments Moderator,
This morning I posted information EXTREMELY relevant to this topic, and it has not yet been approved.
Comments made several hours later have been, so I can only assume that have gotten my comments.
If you have gotten the comments, and for some reason have decided not to post them, might I ask why?
If you have not gotten them, can you email me at the above address and let me know so that I might resubmit them?
This is a VITAL issue and the fact that the government has conceded that vaccines to lead to autism in some circumstances HAS to be brought in to this disucssion.
Thank you,
Ginger Taylor
Ginger,
To put your fear to rest, that fact was already brought up by:
mith | March 3, 2008 11:45 AM
Ginger,
To put your fear to rest, that fact was already brought up by:
mith | March 3, 2008 11:45 AM
Wow...
I guess you really made sure that aspect of the story was covered with the weight that it is due!
Now I totally understand why my comments added nothing to the conversation and were rightfully left out of the discussion!
/end irony
My blog post on the bizarre blog posts like yours that are ignoring the most important part of the story.
I hope you will be intellectually honest and revisit this issue. Give the Federal Legal Precedent that makes McCain's comments completely and utterly reasonable their due consideration.
Unless you want to charge the US Federal Vaccine Court of making a 'lunatic pronouncement' as well.
Njorl,
The case involved stipulated recompense for damage caused by vaccines, not thimerosal.
In that case, a child with a mitochondrial disorder was simultaneously given 9 vaccinations. The child rapidly developed many very severe symptoms. Civil court does not require certainty.
First... this was not a civil court, it was Federal Vaccine Court.
Second, we do not yet know the thimerosal content of the vaccines because the court sealed the case, but the time tells us that the vaccine injury happened at a time when thimerosal in vaccines was at its highest doses.
Third, the girl was a typically developing child, until she got 4 shots at her 18 month checkup, which is standard medical practice according to the CDC's vaccine schedule, and then developed autism. The same story as my son and tens of thousands of other parents.
She was LATER tested and found to have a mito disorder that the court found was the medical condition that made the vaccine reaction possible.
But she showed no outward symptoms of the mito disorder, or autism, before her 18 month vaccinations!
So the question is... how many parents out there like me, who claim that their kids shots triggered their autism, have children with undiagnosed mitochondrial disorders that made them sitting ducks for vaccine injury?
And I have not gotten a call from my pediatrician saying, "Hey... the AAP just alerted me that your suspicion of Chandler having vaccine induce autism might be right, so bring him in and we can screen him for a mitochondrial disorder".
Because instead of announcing this VERY IMPORTANT medical finding, they sealed the case and hid it!
And because news outlets and blogs like this keep repeating the now legally false claim that there is no link between vaccines and autism.
This girl's family is planning a press conference this week, so we can hear all the details, and we can find out just how much thimerosal she got and when.
press conference announcement just released... for those of you who are interested.
Ginger -
How can one case possibly prove that vaccinations caused autism? The fact that autism is often diagnosed not long after 18 months doesn't prove anything (haven't they found through home movies that the signs were often there earlier, but were too subtle?). If autism is due to thimerosol, then why have countries found that the number of diagnosed cases continued to climb for more than a decade after they stopped using thimerosol? Why hasn't there been a decrease in the US since 2001?
We all sympathize with your concern over your son, but we have to think about other children, also. My son had brain damage at birth that made the doctors recommend at first that he not get vaccinated for whooping cough (before the aP version of the vaccine came out). But that put my son at greater risk because of other people that didn't get their children vaccinated 'just in case'. There are consequences for everyone if people don't get vaccinations, which is why we can't let pure sympathy for upset parents overwhelm our reasoning on this issue.
And I have to say that, difficult as it can be in extreme cases, I have a hard time thinking of autism as a 'disease', as opposed to a natural variation in which some people's brains work differently. Look at mathematics, economics and engineering departments at various universities, and a substantial proportion of the faculty are autism-spectrum. I value those people. Yes, in extreme cases, autism can make life very difficult, and it's heart-breaking for parents to watch ther children struggle (as I've done with my son, probably to a much lesser degree than what you've gone through). No one should have to go through what you and your son are going through, if he's low-functioning, but that doesn't mean that he would have been different if he hadn't been vaccinated.