The Jefferson Memorial Dance Contest is on.
As there’s no america.craigslist.com, I’m posting this here since the topic I’m about to rant about took place in your district.I’m referring to April the 13th, the birthday of Thomas Jefferson. A group of people decided to show up to the Jefferson Memorial (which is open 24 hours) at 11:55 at night (as to not interfere with anyone else who might have been there earlier during the day) and dance. Dance, that is, equipped with headphones and MP3 players, so as not to disturb anyone else. Not my cup of tea, but this is the US, isn’t it?
About 10 minutes into this, the police had arrived, apparently telling everyone to “shut the fuck up”. When one woman asked why they were being stopped by the police, she was shoved up against a pillar, cuffed, then booked and held. Of course, none of this was witnessed by me, and I’m going off of published articles. The first link below tends to be a bit slow, so there’s another similar story linked below it.
http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/13/so-about-that-tree-of-liberty/
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/04/dancing_fools.phpNow, we all know what’s going to happen. The charges will be dropped and we’ll all forget about it. But that’s not the point – how often are we going to let certain police departments stop people on a whim, only to drop the charges later?
There was an excellent comment in the latter link, which reads:
“I think a peaceful gathering at midnight on every Saturday from now on is in order. I predict that the government will change the rules to ban protests there once this starts.
I can't think of a better way to re-enforce the Founding Fathers views than to start the push back at the steps of the man who expressly demanded we do it.”
Well I second that.
I’m not from DC – but I’m damn willing to head out there with a few friends and have a peaceful stand-around. Not a protest, not some inane statement. Just a group of us standing around, acknowledging what happened, and hopefully sending some small message that this just isn’t fucking acceptable.
So what do you say? April 20th, 11:55 at night. If I get a few dozen people interested in this, we’ll make it happen. I’ll throw up a website or a mailing list or something so we can stay in contact and organise this better if I get some feedback.
But now’s your chance. Now you can finally take note of something like this and do something. Even if that something is just meeting other people who feel the same way.
Please. This transcends political parties, this should transcend everything. We are Americans. Let’s stand together for a night. And then…
Dunno. Once a happening like this becomes too popular, it can quickly get out of hand. After arguing the police case in your initial post, I'm still willing to acknowledge that the police just might have been a bit heavy handed. But I'll remain skeptical and withhold judgment (as if it weren't superfluous anyway).
These types of things can get out of hand once they attract popularity among groups wanting to pick a fight with the police or are otherwise on the lookout for a late-night public moshpit.
Wasn't there some sort of massive party recently in the Midwest where thousands spontaneously showed up and wound up fighting the police all night?
MarkG,
note well:
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
http://www.quotedb.com/authors/samuel-adams
MM,
actually standing and doing!
Way to go~
I don't think it should be April 20th, that's Hitler's Birthday. Bad karma.
Make it thed 21st instead (the founding of Rome, which certainly was an important influence during the founding of our own young Republic)
This all just seems so...well...six-year-old-ish.
I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you......
Might I suggest notifying the Park Police of this event ahead of time? Or is this more like "making a statement," in which case getting arrested would better serve the cause so why bother?
Good point. Think this might have had anything to do with what happened here?
If so, do you think the Park Police were aware of it?
Shoot ourselves?
I don't mean to open a can of worms again, but I'm just genuinely depressed that so many commenters feel the police should have the power to arrest people without having any statutory basis to do so.
And then…
A little making out and heavy petting. Sure fire crowd pleasers.
Freddie,
Speaking for myself (though others have made this point in the other thread), I don't feel the police should have the power to arrest people without having any statutory basis to do so. But there is a little distinction that - unless there is grave danger to self/others/property - the place to argue about the police's actions is in court.
I can imagine that if the "dancers" would have backed down, shown intent to comply, then attempted to question the officers that it would have ended differently.
It just seems on the flip side that a lot of people are acting like the cops should have shown up and said "Hi there! We brought a copy of the US Code and coffee for everyone! Let's all sit down and have a little pow-wow over whether we can ask you to leave."
I tried to link to the story I was referring to, but the link caused my posting to be held for approval. *sigh* Just search "Cedar Fest" and "East Lansing" at news bundling sites. The "party" was promoted on Facebook and three to four thousand people showed up.
Freddie:
Of course the police should act within the confines of statute, not arbitrarily apply force. But the patrol job in policing requires snap judgments about whether or not a situation is legitimate, harmless, or potentially troublesome.
But there is a little distinction that - unless there is grave danger to self/others/property - the place to argue about the police's actions is in court.
This is actually why I brought up the string of arrests at political protests in the last few years. There is a pattern, like with the "T-shirt protest" from a couple years ago, of people being arrested while protesting and then being summarily released after the charges are dropped-- and after their protest has been disrupted. During the protests of the Republican convention in 2004, there were statements from police officers that were as much as concessions that they were making some arrests knowing full well that there was no chance of actual prosecution. The point was only to remove the protesters and silence the protest. Saying "you'll have your day in court" is fine when someone is actually arraigned or indicted. But when someone is simply silenced and then released, what recourse is there? Our legal system makes it exceedingly difficult to successfully sue or make a meaningful complaint against the police when there hasn't been significant physical harm done. And so there's very little to stop local governments from making these frivolous arrests, and is why I'm so disturbed by the "arrest them, and it'll get sorted out in court" attitude. What meaning does the right peacefully protest have if that right can be abridged in any particular instance without consequence for the police?
Sure, why not have a little pow-wow? I've been to a number of leftie sit-ins, union demonstrations, etc. and the protestors get far more leniency, before arrests are made, than this woman got. Block sidewalks, scream profanites 1" from some "scab's" face, and the cops will continue to drink their coffee until they are damn well ready to say "break it up."
I noted this fact in the previous thread, but it got lost down around comment 120:
If the park police use a seniority system as other police agencies sometimes do, then the cop you get at midnight is the cop who just started a few months ago, doesn't know the rules and regulations he is enforcing all that well, and is chaffing for that time -- two years or more away -- when someone more senior than himself quits, transfers, or retires so that he, in turn, can start demanding better shifts and not see his wife for all of an hour before she leaves for her day job and he goes to bed.
Simple rule for organizing an even of this type: call in advance and politely state exactly what you would like to do, and inquire as to whether a permit is needed -- even if you know that one isn't in your particular case. Then, when the cops get a phone call at five past midnight that some apparently unhinged drunks are surrounding the Jefferson Memorial, they'll be able to respond "Yeah, we heard about those guys, they're okay as long as they aren't attacking anybody," instead of having to leave their comfortable office chairs and confront a group of people who outnumber them and are possibly in a state of poor judgement and therefore more likely to throw a punch or pull a weapon.
Y'know, just saying. If that's too much to ask, then I recommend private islands.
Technically, the police were required to break up that dance party. From 36 CFR Ch. I (7–1–07 Edition):
(Just to clarify, while a "special event" of fewer than 25 people might not need a permit, you can't have the event if you would be unable get a permit.)
They were there together. They were celebrating Jefferson's birthday. That makes it a "special event". Special events are banned at the memorial proper.
I'm not saying it's a good law. I don't think it is. It might not even be constitutional. I also think it would have been better if the police explained themselves. However, the police were acting within the scope of their authority in ordering the people to leave. While you are within your rights to refuse the police when they exceed their authority, you are likely to get busted when they legally tell you to do something and you don't comply.
...then again, maybe the people were dancing in a legal area. I've only been there once, but I don't remember the prohibited area as being amenable to lots of people dancing. Then again, I don't think most dance clubs I've been in are amenable to lots of people dancing.
What is the long-term objective here? Get the Park Service to change its large-gathering permit rules? Have a story to tell your grandchildren? Meet people my wife describes as "hot libertarian giantesses"?
It helps you to get somewhere if you have a hazy idea where you're going.
LOL! Just saw video of this "alarming" event at the "Free the Jefferson 1" blog.
I think the cops were eager to get the geeky dancers to move along. But since they're a bunch of hyper-educated, querulous boneheads, they insist on trying to drag the cops into a major, long-winded, and (frankly) boring debate about libertarian philosophy. The narrator's tone of voice makes you think he's already running potential documentary titles through his head: The Day the Dancing Died? Our Emaciated Bill of Rights? IDances with Pigs?
I think the cops were just trying to demonstrate what they could do if you promise to drive them nuts with a lot of nagging, petulant blather.
Yes, there still is freedom of speech. But there's also freedom from speech if you're just tired of hearing it. ;-)
Great schtick!
It helps you to get somewhere if you have a hazy idea where you're going.
Why should they need to be going anywhere, though? Rights don't need larger justification to be honored.
"Getting rights honored" is a fine goal, if a bit of a vague one. Does this call to protest advance the general cause of liberty and insistence that the police have a sound basis for arrest? Or does it at most advance the relatively trivial "right to dance silently" in a few places for a few months, before every forgets what it is about?
I agree with you about the chilling effect of baseless arrest and the difficulty of getting proper redress, BTW. So...anyone have a real, lasting solution that might have decent impact?
" ...I don't think it should be April 20th, that's Hitler's Birthday. Bad karma. ... Make it thed 21st instead (the founding of Rome, which certainly was an important influence during the founding of our own young Republic) ..."
Or how about April 19th? Isn't that the anniversary of the Battle of Concord & Lexington, as well as the anniversary of the Waco massacre.
I still say it will encourage the negros to revolt.
I am with the pigs on this one.
If police can't manage that set of complex mental gymnastics, perhaps they should find jobs more suitable to their limitations, like janitorial work.
(No offense to janitors, who, unlike cops, rarely violate anybody's rights.)
aMouseforallSeasons has exactly the right idea: call and ask the service if what you are doing is allowed.
"Hello, I'm going to the memorial and I want to wear an Ipod. Do I need a permit for that?"
"Hello, there are three of us going to the memorial and we were wondering if we are all allowed to go in at the same time?"
"Hello, I was wondering what time of day I'm allowed to talk to a ranger without being arrested."
After a few hundred calls, I bet the arresting officer will be transferred to phone answering duty.
If they were smart, they'd all just wear shirts that said something like, "Please don't arrest me." and walk all around the monument all day like any other tourist.
No shit. What scares me is that These Kids think they are the new wave of legal, political and media superstars. I don't think Joke Line, Tweety Matthews and Pumpkin Head Russert have much to worry about just yet. Quite a groundswell of support for the cause you've got happening.
What scares me is that These Kids think they are the new wave of legal, political and media superstars.
What an asinine non sequitur.
They should get Improv Everywhere involved...
Sometimes the police act in a manner that is legal, but stupid. Breaking up a harmless group of people doing something weird, but harmless is just silly.
This kind of thing makes me want to more seriously embrace Discordianism. Accepting weird or unusual things is hard... but knee-jerk acceptance of everything normal can be a bad thing.
The more the police take an "interest" in anyone who is acting different from the norm, the less free we are.
What better way to memorialize child molester David Koresh's slaughter of children than to prance around the Jefferson Memorial with your mp3 player. I'm sure Tim McVeigh would be proud.
http://www.total411.info/2008/04/jackboots-arrest-jefferson-bday.html
"From TheAgitator.com April 13:
"[Saturday night], a group of about 20 D.C.-area libertarians headed down to the Thomas Jefferson Memorial for some flash mob fun. The prank was harmless revelry: To ring in Jefferson’s birthday, we would meet on the steps of the memorial at 11:55pm, wearing iPods, then dance for about 10 minutes, capture the whole thing on video, and leave...
By the time we arrived it was already over. The National Park Police broke the whole thing up just a few minutes in, punctuating their lack of a sense of humor by arresting one of the dancers . . . She was cuffed, taken out to a paddy wagon, then booked and held at a Park Police station. Everyone I spoke with says there was no noise, there were no threats, and no laws broken (the park police I spoke with–including the arresting officer (who, oddly enough, denied to me that he was the arresting officer)–declined to say why she had been arrested).
The police refused to answer any questions, referring all calls to the communication number of the Park Police, which at this hour is closed. They also refused to give their badge numbers...
How about everyone doing an anti-dance? Seen the video of about 200 people freezing in place for 5 minutes in Grand Central Station? If it's done without blocking any path in or out, what's the harm in that?