I know: it's straight-up public choice theory. Parents who think that vaccines cause autism will vote on the issue, while people who think that this is bunk will not. But couldn't they just keep quiet?
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How does the anti-vaccine lobby have so much sway over our presidential nominees? It seems baffling to me.
I had no idea this was even an issue, or a rumor. What's the full quote, I guess is the question? If McCain is saying "vaccines cause autism" and Obama is saying "I'm not sure but we should look into it", then at least he's the lesser of two evils, and can probably be given the benefit of the doubt for not wanting to come out strongly on the other side of the fence, then have a study come out this summer that proves something.
Still, I don't see how this becomes a campaign issue. But then maybe it's not a real campaign issue, and I'm spending too much time in the blogosphere. This shit is like coke.
But, but, Obama is,......TRANSFORMATIVE!
I'm not playin' anymore, or at least not in this cycle. I wish I hadn't in 2000.
Did he really volunteer that statement at a rally? That's sad. It's one thing to be asked a direct question from parents with an autistic kid and not have the heart to tell them they're suffering in vain. But to just bring it up on the stump...why?
I'm not playin' anymore, or at least not in this cycle. I wish I hadn't in 2000.
Whoa. Does Will Allen really regret voting for Bush in 2000? Say it ain't so!
I think that Megan is quickly running out of post-hoc rationalizations for her decision to support Barack Obama in the general election ;)
Oh, ed, I've said that for some time. Heck, I predicted that Bush would be a terrible President as early as 1998, and voted against Bush in the primary in the state I was living in 2000, even though I couldn't stand his primary opponent, and had never voted in a primary election before or since. I'll admit to being influenced too much by extreme fatigue of all thing Clinton, which is why I decided to vote against Gore. I should have just stayed home, not that it would have made any difference. I don't regret voting against Kerry, however.
It looks more and more like the reason Obama looked so shiny and wonderful all those months ago is that he hadn't yet had to dirty himself with the kind of pandering nonsense one has to go through in a long campaign. I have to give him credit for one thing - he does a good job of acting as though his heart isn't in it.
Since I'm a vaccine researcher, I'll be voting (at least partly) on the issue.
The scary part about both Obama and McCain on this issue is that they seem to believe that the science is not conclusive:
"The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."
-BO
"...the question is what's causing it. And we go back and forth and there's strong evidence that indicates it's got to do with a preservative in vaccines."
-JMC
There has been no "back and forth" evidence or "inconclusive" science. Excluding the fraudulent Andrew Wakefield "study", every scientific examination of autism has shown no association with vaccination. The only people who believe the link exists are emotional parents (Jenny McCarthy), sleazy doctors (Mark and David Geier), and activist-authors(ie David Kirby).
The science of autism causation is settled with regard to vaccines. Period.
Here is a bit of sanity on the issue:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/04/autism-myth-liv.html
On the other hand, Obama thinks McCain's gas tax holiday is a lousy idea, so he's not a total panderer.
I don’t see why anyone would since each of the three major candidates – Senators McCain, Obama and Clinton – seem to have same opinion on this issue.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15296.html#more-15296
Sad that each of the major candidates seem to think that the science on whether vaccinations cause autism is unsettled but whether human activity is causing the Earth’s temperature to increase at a dangerous and unnatural rate is somehow a slam-dunk.
Read the fine print:
So basically on top of all of the other tax hikes he’s proposed, Obama is still leaving the door open for a future gas tax increase – just not “right now.”
Shouldn't this article be entitled "Obama and McCain join the autism panderers?
-dk
dk, McCain had his autism-vaccine stupid moment months ago and Megan blogged about it then.
I wonder if I'm the only one that appreciates the irony of the last three posts. First, one talking up the legal defense fund for someone that dared to question an agent of the state. Second, an account of an agent of the state caught up in his own legislation. And finally, a rhetorical question directing people to just shut up and stop questioning the state.
Thanks for providing a bit of humor to an otherwise ordinary day.
"The scary part about both Obama and McCain on this issue is that they seem to believe that the science is not conclusive:"
I don't know that I'd call it scary, but it is bothersome. It is reasonable to be ignorant of information outside your field of expertise. It is admirable to admit that ignorance, but don't go admitting ignorance for others that just doesn't exist. The research on autism and vaccines is of sufficient conclusiveness that it is a disservice to those suffering to continue wasting money on it. The cause of fighting autism is better served by spending money elsewhere.
Random Celebrity: "But my kid has autism! Listen to my conspiracy theory and then do something about it!"
I didn't tell them to shut up and listen to the state; I suggested that perhaps they should listen to all the reputable scientists saying that the autism/vaccine link is nonsense on stilts.
c'mon, kids. This is an EASY one. Who better to pander to than emotional people who will never believe the science? It's like telling people you will fix the pot hole by their house without raising the taxes to fix it...
it's what politicians DO...
Yes, it's what politicians do. But the Obama-ites have been telling us that their guy is something more than an ordinary politician.
Well, he isn't. I wonder if this will help Sully overcome his man-crush.
Shameful statement Obama made. That's no better than a global warming or evolution denier. He should know better.
Obama's covering for an Imus endorsement. Imus's wife Yoko is the science expert in the house. Imus wants to get laid now and then. End of story.
Has Her Hillaryness lied about this issue yet? Just wondering.
My Mother in Law has been pressuring me to forgo vaccenes because they supposedly cause autism. (The baby hasn't been born yet).
I confess my ignorance in this area, but I am hesitant to expose my child to the risk of contracting a serious (and preventable) disease, just on the supposition that a vaccene might cause autism.
Can anyone direct me to some of the research that has discredited this link, so that I can help my mother in law understand why our child will be vaccinated?
Thanks
JMarie,
This MSNBC story gives a good summary of one important study.
I can look up some of the raw data for you, but I'm assuming you would prefer a layperson's explanation.
Basically, if Thimerosal (a common organo-mercury preservative) did contribute to autism, one would expect that phasing it out would cause a change in the number of autism cases. Now, Thimerosal was removed from circulation at the turn of the century, but there was no discernable change to accompany its removal.
This does not provide absolute proof that there is no link between vaccines and autism, but it is about as close to that as science can achieve.
Your Mother in Law, even if she breaks the stereotype in every other way, is not worth listening to on this issue.
Congratulations on your soon-to-be bundle of joy.
As a parent who has only recently begun to realize that I have a child who was possibly affected, I'd do a lot more research before I vaccinated again. My daughter's personality took an abrupt change around the age of 18 months - something we attributed to the arrival of a new baby in the family, but which in hindsight doesn't make sense. She also had several high fever episodes where she could keep no food down around the same period of time. Now, 12 years later, she still does not relate to others as well as our younger child. She has been taught well and has overcome much, but as a mother, it breaks your heart to realize that there may have been something that you could have done differently. My sister has a child a year old and we've been doing the research together. NOTHING takes the place of doing your own homework.
http://www.whale.to/a/thrower.html
Also, keep in mind that most of the naysayers here seem to be childless. Wonder if they might look into the situation a bit more if they had a vested interest?!
Hmmm...personal experience vs. scientific studies...
Personal experience: One of our friends has a son who was developing normally, then got his scheduled vaccinations at two. Spiked a fever and was hospitalized. Regressed developmentally and did not speak for two years.
Now, I can't say for sure that the vaccination caused Ryan's autism, but there seems to be a very strong cause/effect there.
Another acquaintance had the same experience with her daughter, just not quite as severe. And a co-worker of my sister-in-law lost her grandson right after the baby got his shots and spiked a fever. The doctor told the parents not to worry, that kids typically run a fever after a vaccination, give him some Tylenol. By the next morning he was dead.
And we bought a stroller from a woman whose younger son had complications/regression after receiving his vaccinations at two.
Add that to the fact that my husband's daughter had a bad reaction to her first (and last) vaccination...
So. We are holding off of vaccines until after our daughter turns two, since between 18 months - 2 years seems to be the danger zone. Then we will selectively vaccinate using those vaccines that we deem important enough to risk. Vaccines, contrary to popular opinion, are NOT risk free.
Hmmm...personal experience vs. scientific studies...
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
Anytime there is a vaccine/autism thread, people who have had a bad experience have a reason to post their story, while the tens of millions of normal vaccination stories remain untold.
Also, keep in mind that most of the naysayers here seem to be childless.I>
Where do you get that informaion?
"Sad that each of the major candidates seem to think that the science on whether vaccinations cause autism is unsettled but whether human activity is causing the Earth’s temperature to increase at a dangerous and unnatural rate is somehow a slam-dunk."
Excellent point!
so here's the thing... if autistic spectrum really affects 1 in 150 kids... and 125 of those 150 are immunized. What're the odds that the one ASPY is immunized? Did it cause his autism? There is no direct causal relationship there.
The only link being investigated with autism was the idea that the thimerisol caused a change like heavy metal poisoning would. But the tiny amount of Th. is not the same as the kid eating paint off the wall to start with.
AND THEN?
They stopped using the Thimerisol 8 years ago.
ASPY rates didn't drop.
So either the culprit isn't thimerisol, or it isn't the vaccine. If it isn't Th. there are few things to blame it on that would cause the symptoms of autism. The dead critters in the vaccines aren't shared, since they immunize for different things. the only similarity amongst vaccines is the carrier, and that has been tested. Even people allergic to the carrier, have reactions, not autism.
So what else could it be, beav?
That would be the $64,000 Q? It dosn't sound like it worth beating the dead horse of vaccinations for this when the cause is out there somewhere else.
I am not all for vaccines, they have other issues, as well, but the issues are amazingly small. I too know a child who went from promising to having to wear a helmet to keep her from hitting her head on the floor all the time. At 14 she will never speak, either. This within 24 hours of a DPT shot. That said, we will never know what it was. Maybe it was unrelated. Maybe something else broke in her brain. It is understandable that we want something specific to blame everything on, because not knowing is really painful. But after watching something like this with NO answer, why worry over the least likely cause, when you get more REAL MERCURY from eating a lot of tunafish?
For the record, neither of my kids are vacc'd because they are both allergic to the carriers, and IMHO THAT is something that should be checked for kids before just stickin' em, but even so, it would be a really small group at that. AND my son is an ASPY.
So it's obvious that it wasn't the vacc, because he didn't have one.
There are many chances for well and ill in this world, and you should make your own decisions for your children while realizing you are making decisions that affect everyone else too. Parenting is much easier if you don't jump at every little sound, and keep a clear head.
"Also, keep in mind that most of the naysayers here seem to be childless."
On the contrary, I have children, who have all been vaccinated. My son was advised originally not to get the pertussis vaccination (for whooping cough) because he had an earlier traumatic brain injury and was thought to be at special risk from the vaccine. Having done my research, I was frightened by the risk he faced from unvaccinated children. Whooping cough still shows up now and then in the US, and it wouldn't spread as easily if more parents were responsible enough to truly and unemotionally consider the evidence on both sides.
I sympathize with parents that want to understand what happened to their children, but how many parents whose children 'suddenly' changed between 18 months and 2 years had had their children evaluated by professionals before then? How many have taken their home movies from before the 'sudden change' to be examined by professionals for signs of autism? I remember seeing a study where this was done, and experts were able to spot early signs that parents had missed.
How many parents have even watched those old movies themselves, carefully considering the possibility that hints were already there from very early? I knew from a few days after birth that my son had brain damage and was watching himn carefully in the first couple of years to see how he would develop, but even so, by watching home movies a few years later, I could find signs of the damage that I hadn't fully appreciated at the time. And at his regular evaluations by a developmental pediatrician, she asked questions I wouldn't have thought of and did extensive tests that spotted traits and developmental abnormalities that I hadn't noticed or thought to interpret. Children all develop differently, and certain traits are harder to identify at age 1 than they are at age 2 - experts work very hard at such evaluations (and make the parent work hard, also - it's a long, detailed process), so how can average parents be so sure that their child showed no early signs, without extensive training?
It's no wonder that there are old legends about changelings, where a normal child was stolen (usually between the ages of 18 months and 2 years) by a fairy who replaced that child with a damaged, emotionally stunted one.
Regarding the still-rising autism spectrum diagnosis rates even years after thimerasol was removed from US vaccines, there are countries where it was removed even earlier (a decade or more ago), and that didn't slow the rate of increase in diagnosis.
I think that people along the autism spectrum have brains that are structured differently, to varying degrees. The same extreme formation that makes people relatively good at math, science and engineering generally places them farther out on the autism spectrum.
"Also, keep in mind that most of the naysayers here seem to be childless. Wonder if they might look into the situation a bit more if they had a vested interest?!"
I'm a naysayer with two autistic children. My children have less impact on my beliefs than my ability to read and understand a statistical analysis. I fail to see why having children or having autistic children should influence one's beliefs in this matter. A greater stake in the matter makes me more interested in finding the truth, not in assigning the truth.