I hadn't realized that I missed such rich opportunities for snark by foregoing the debate:
Remember that woman from the debate last night who the moderators showed videotape of asking whether Barack Obama "believes in the flag"? Her name is Nash McCabe.
Josh Marshall may try to present this as some sort of anti-Obama conspiracy, but this is an issue of vital importance. The flag is real. I've seen it. And I certainly don't want a flag-denier as our next president. Just think of what he might do to the national history curriculum . . .
Nice snark! I'm not sure though if I'm not a little scared that there are actually quite a few Americans who believe in the flag but not so much in the Republic for which it stands. I guess they think Jesus was buried in an American flag or something.
I thought you were going to snark about the name "Nash McCabe."
I look forward to watching folks twist themselves into a knot over this lady.
I believe people would be quite prejudiced against her and not sympathetic. For all I know, she's a really, really nice lady and her story sounds like she's got the patience of Job.
But she looks like a lady that you'd yell at on the freeway or that you'd glare at after she put her 17 items down in the express lane at the supermarket.
This post misses the point. It isn't that Barak Obama doesn't wear a lapel pin. It's that he made a big point of not wearing one.
This fits a pattern--one of association with the ranting Reverend and the mad bomber from the Weathermen Underground, and one that includes his wife's admission that until recently she had never once been proud of her country. Barak Obama and his wife have their intellectual roots in the left-wing movements of the 1960's.
Like the radicals of the 60's Senator Obama is uncomfortable with outward patriotic displays. For him, evidently, any show of patriotism is jingoism.
There is plenty about American policy to criticize. But anyone who fails to see that the United States has, on the whole, been a powerful force for good in the world is not fit to be the President.
Hey RWE,
Would you say that patriotism has not descended into jingoism and nationalism over the last 6 years? Obama's point is that his actions are patriotic, rather than vast number of hollow displays of the flag most politicians offer.
I bet you have a yellow ribbon 'support the troops' magnet on your car don't you...
TDE, no I don't have a yellow ribbon on my car. Not that I wouldn't--it just never occurred to me. And I've never worn a flag lapel pin, as best I can remember.
Again, it matters little whether one wears a lapel pin or puts a patriotic bumper sticker on one's car. But it is quite telling when someone undersores his discomfort with outward patriotic displays.
As I wrote above, in conjunction with other things we have learned about Obama--like his radical associations and his wife's remarks--his emphatic and sanctimonious rejection of outward patriotic displays says a lot about his view of the world.
Either America is a noble country that deserves to be celebrated or it is not. When I look at this country I see one that, for all its flaws, has been the most powerful force for human freedom in the history of the world. I see a country that defeated Naziism, Communism and that will defeat the Islamo-fascism that threatens us with a new kind of slavery.
Is that what Barak Obama sees when he looks at America? Judging from the comments of his "mentor" and his wife, it seems that he sees America in a much different light.
Not to mention Obama made his statement about not wearing the lapel pin, anticipating all this mouth-breathing about not wearing one.
All this crap about flag pins, patriotism and the hand over the heart makes me want to strap most Americans into a chair Clockwork Orange style and make them watch the episode of B*******! where Penn and Teller actually burn an American flag. The jingoism is getting ridiculous.
rwe loves this nation so much that the great American Bob Dylan wrote a song about him. It's on "Blood on the Tracks."
I agree with rwe. I want a President who loves the country. Love doesn't have to be blind, though. I love myself... but I am sometimes angry at myself, disappointed in myself, or otherwise unhappy with myself. But I am also happy and proud of myself at times, too. I don't expect anyone to pretend like the US is perfect. I don't even expect everyone to love the country. I just expect the PRESIDENT to love the country and be proud of it, on the whole.
Obama, by has many actions and associations, has shown that he is not really proud of the country. He looks down his nose at many of its citizens and is ashamed to show any patriotism.
That's not the only reason I wouldn't vote for Obama, just one of many.
Only an idiot thinks that Patriots are blind to the faults of the country.
If you think rwe was being bellicose or belligerent, then you need to get out more.
Agreed, but if I might add – even if that were the only reason given to vote against Obama, it’s still more substantive than any reason that’s been given to vote for him.
Are you questioning my patriotism? Or Obama's?
Let's just get this ugly little business out into the open right now.
another take on this comment:
"There is plenty about American policy to criticize. But anyone who fails to see that the United States has, on the whole, been a powerful force for good in the world is not fit to be the President."
So, no matter what has happened to you or your family or your ancestors (or, no matter what the US might do in the present or the future), if you don't think the United States is, on the whole, a force for good in the world, then you shouldn't be President?
Hmmm. So let's think who that is likely to exclude . . . And let's consider the way that precluding the very possibility that the United States may not always be, or always have been, a force for good in the world, would prevent us from changing things if - perish the thought - the US ever did tilt on balance to being a more negative force in the world.
Thank god it is simply impossible that the US could ever, even temporarily, be something of a problem. That saves us from worrying about torture, for example. Even if we torture a lot, we just can't be all that bad. Not on balance, because on balance we are a force for good.
I feel like I'm writing script for the Colbert Report.
The Nash McNabe issue is not about her, but about ABC digging her out and prompting her to ask the flag pin question. And there is an issue of ABC not sharin gher background, which was pertinent given that the ABC debate team first asked Obama about the bitterness stuff.
But there are also truly major issues about all that Nash McNabe has been through, and these things are called mine safety, worker's comp and disability, health insurance, decent wages for workers, etc. ABC could have asked her which she thought was most important.
I'd like to see Obama go visit her and engage her in conversation.
How sad that Megan must live in a country where not everyone can express herself as well as she can. But not to worry! We an always make fun of people like that.
"Either America is a noble country that deserves to be celebrated or it is not."
My wife brings that up to me whenever we have a disagreement, except that she substitutes her name for America.
"It's that he made a big point of not wearing one."
Yeah, I remember that press release he did about it, the one he sent to Sean Hannity.
The interesting question is not whether he believes in the flag, but rather 'What does he believe the flag stands for?'. I be REALLY interested in hearing his answer to that one...
I'd just like to say two things:
1) As a non-American I find the whole flag lapel and putting your hand over your heart thing kinda creepy.
2) Almost no-one actually puts their hand over their heart, they're actually putting their hand over the left side of their chest. The heart is closer to the centre of your chest than that.
"me. And I've never worn a flag lapel pin, as best I can remember.
Again, it matters little whether one wears a lapel pin or puts a patriotic bumper sticker on one's car. But it is quite telling when someone undersores his discomfort with outward patriotic displays."
For me, the flag pin screams "I'm an authoritarian douchebag" more than it is a display of patriotism. It's a way to spend $2.99 on a piece of cheap plastic-and-metal crap made in China to substitute for actual thought and affection. A patriot tries to do stuff like ban torture because we're supposed to be better than that and not get us into dumb, unwinnable ground wars in the Arab world. If you want to think of the US as exceptional, you actually have to practice it. Our country was founded on certain ideals of individual liberty. Our Founding Fathers were rather critical of authoritarian fetishists who used iconography and nationalist rhetoric for their own selfish ends instead of protecting freedom. Does anyone think that the Founding Fathers would actually be proud that our country has produced FoxNews and Sean Hannity?
If you think Obama isn't a patriot because his pastor has said some not-so-nice things, then you're an idiot. He wanted to get closer to the black community in Chicago and chose the "buppie" (black yuppie) black church in Chicago. Compared to the other pastors Obama could have chosen, Wright is a moderate. He is also a former marine and probably has done more for this country and its people (which includes poor black people living in Chicago's South Side) than most of the GOP elite.
I'm trying to think of a dumber criterion for selecting a president than whether he wears a flag pin, but I'll admit, nothing's coming to mind.
ISTM that the problem here wasn't that some random person asked a dumb question, it's that the folks running the debate selected that dumb question as being worth giving to Obama in the debate. The time of the people watching the debate has some value (not much, or they'd be doing something more useful and informative, like watching paint dry), and it would be nice if the clowns running the next debate would try not to waste those peoples' time.