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We now return to your regularly scheduled execution

26 Apr 2008 10:27 am

I heard something that sounded very odd on the radio yesterday: news that Florida's governor had expressed his "gratitude" that lethal injection was once again legal, and his intention of getting a death warrant out there as quickly as possible.

I oppose the death penalty, for somewhat idiosyncratic reasons. Some of those reasons are well captured by the passage in The Plague where Tarrou talks about his father.

When I was seventeen my father asked me to come to hear him speak in court. There was a big case on at the assizes, and probably he thought I'd see him to his best advantage. Also I suspect he hoped I'd be duly impressed by the pomp and ceremony of the law and encouraged to take up his profession. I could tell he was keen on my going, and the prospect of seeing a side of my father's character so different from that we saw at home appealed to me. Those were absolutely the only reasons I had for going to the trial. What happened in a court had always seemed to me as natural, as much in the order of things, as a military parade on the Fourteenth of July or a school speech day. My emotions on the subject were purely abstract, and I'd never given it serious thought.

The only picture I carried away with me of that day's proceedings was a picture of the criminal. I have little doubt he was guilty--of what crime is no great matter. That little man of about thirty, with sparse, sandy hair, seemed so eager to confess everything, so genuinely horrified at what he'd done and what was going to be done iwth him, that after a few minutes I had eyes for nothing and nobody else. He looked like a yello owl scared blind by too much light. His tie was slightly awry, he kept biting his nails, those of one hand only, his right . . . I needn't go on, need I? You've understood--he was a living human being.

As for me, it came on me suddenly, in a flash of understanding; until then I'd thought of him only under his commonplace official designation, as 'the defendant." And though I can't say I quite forgot my father, soemthing seemed to grip my vitals at that moment and riveted all my attention on the little man in the dock. I hardly heard what was being said; I only knew that they were set on killing that living man, and an uprush of some elemental instinct, like a wave, had swept me to his side. And I did not really wak up until my father rose to address the court.

In his red gown he was another man, no longer genial or good-natured; his mouth spewed out long, turgid phrases like an endless stream of snakes. I realised he was clamoring for the prisoner's death, telling the jury that they owed it to society to find him guilty; he went so far as to demand that the man should have his head cut off. Not exactly in those words, I admit. 'He must pay the supreme penalty,' was the formula. But the difference, really, was slight, and the result the same. He had the head he asked for. Only of course it wasn't he who did the actual job. I, who saw the whole business through to its conclusion, felt a far closer, far more terrifying intimacy with that wretched man than my father can ever have felt.

Whether you are for or against the death penalty, an execution is a dire act. It seems odd to express gratitude that you can get back to it as quickly as possible.

On a related note, I have a stupid but well meant question: why are there so many problems with lethal injection? When my vet put my dog to sleep, he used a single shot which he assured me worked quickly and painlessly. Was he lying to me? And if he wasn't, what does my vet know that the State of Florida does not?

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The dissenters in the opinion answer your question:

Justice Ginsburg, with whom Justice Souter joins, dissenting.

It is undisputed that the second and third drugs used in Kentucky's three-drug lethal injection protocol, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride, would cause a conscious inmate to suffer excruciating pain. Pancuronium bromide paralyzes the lung muscles and results in slow asphyxiation. App. 435, 437, 625. Potassium chloride causes burning and intense pain as it circulates throughout the body. Id., at 348, 427, 444, 600, 626. Use of pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride on a conscious inmate, the plurality recognizes, would be "constitutionally unacceptable." Ante, at 14.

The constitutionality of Kentucky's protocol therefore turns on whether inmates are adequately anesthetized by the first drug in the protocol, sodium thiopental. Kentucky's system is constitutional, the plurality states, because "petitioners have not shown that the risk of an inadequate dose of the first drug is substantial." Ante, at 15. I would not dispose of the case so swiftly given the character of the risk at stake. Kentucky's protocol lacks basic safeguards used by other States to confirm that an inmate is unconscious before injection of the second and third drugs. I would vacate and remand with instructions to consider whether Kentucky's omission of those safeguards poses an untoward, readily avoidable risk of inflicting severe and unnecessary pain.

Okay, that's question one. Now how about questions two and three?

Quite apart from any problems with the procedure, it seems to me that there are two practical reasons to oppose the death penalty. (Which, I must say, I personally have no actual objection to in principle.)

First, there is the possibility of error. Consider, for example, the number of people who are currently being exonerated, sometimes after decades in prison, due to DNA evidence or for other reasons. Nothing can return their years of life to them. But at least there is some chance that the error can be acknowledged and something returned to them. With the death penalty, there is no such possibility.

Second, the cost to the tax payers of bringing someone from conviction to actual execution, including all the manditory appeals, etc., is actually greater than the cost of housing them in prison for life -- even if they end up being in prison for 70+ years. Is retribution really worth the cost?

There are two types of evil human beings. One type is, of course, the perpetrators of heinous crimes. The others are those who revel in killing the criminals and seek to enhance or gain power by having them killed.

The powerless and the cowards plead with the second kind to make the killing painless, as if the certain prospect of being killed is a minor pain compared to the pain caused by chemicals, swords, or gunshots.

I find these discussions nauseating to the core of my being.

Megan's last question does bring to mind one of my pet ideas. If we are going to have executions, have them administered by veterinarians. They are experienced in painless execution, and they appear to have no ethical bar to executing their patients.

Megan asks:

"why are there so many problems with lethal injection?"

You know, there really aren't.

Lethal Injection: Current Controversies Resolved
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters, contact info, below
updated 1/08
 
Several issues have come up with regard to lethal injection.
 
Generally, they are:
1) The murderer experiencing pain during execution;
2) The ethics of medical professionals participating in executions; and
3) Proper training of execution personnel.
 
1) PAIN AND LETHAL INJECTION
 
The evidence, including the immediate autopsy of executed serial murderer/rapist Michael Ross, supports that there is no pain within the lethal injection process.

There is a concern that some inmates may be conscious, but paralyzed, during execution, because one of the three drugs used may have worn off, prior to death.
 
First, there is rare evidence this may have occurred. There is a lot of speculation.
 
Secondly, if properly administered, it cannot occur with the properties and amounts of the chemicals used and within the time frame of an execution.

Thirdly, no one has explained how the first drug could have worn off, within the time frame of execution. Or, how is it that the first drug was, somehow, improperly administered, but the second and third were not, when using the same lines and procedures?

An Associated Press reporter correctly stated that  "there is little to support those claims except a few anecdotes of inmates gasping and convulsing and an article in the British medical journal Lancet." (AP, "Death penalty foes attack lethal-injection drug", 7/5/05)
 
The British Medical Journal, The Lancet, published an article critical of lethal injection (Volume 365, 4/16/05). A follow up article, by essential the same group of researchers, published a similar report in PLoS Medicine on 4/24/07.

The articles did not/could not identify one case where evidence existed than an inmate was conscious during execution.  

The Lancet article identified 21 cases of execution where the level of "post mortem" (after death) sodium thiopental was below that used in surgery and, therefore,  may suggest consciousness was possible. 

A more accurate description would be all but impossible.
 
A "long after execution" post mortem measurement of sodium thiopental is very different from a moment of death measurement.

Dr. Lydia Conlay, chair of the department of anesthesiology, Baylor College of Medicine (Texas Medical Center, Houston) said the extrapolation of postmortem sodium thiopental levels in the blood to those at the time of execution is by no means a proven method. "I just don't think we can draw any conclusions from (the Lancet study) , one way or the other."
 
Actually, we can. The science is well known.  Sodium thiopental is absorbed rapidly into the body. Long after execution blood testing of those levels means absolutely nothing with regard to the levels at the time of execution.  Nothing.
 
The Lancet article did not dispute the obvious --  for executions,  the sodium thiopental is administered in dosages roughly 10-20  times the amount necessary for sedation unconsciousness during surgical procedures.

Unconsciousness occurs within the first 30 seconds of the injection/execution process. The injection of the three drugs takes from 4-5 minutes. Death usually occurs within 6-7 minutes and is pronounced within 8-10 minutes.

The researchers also failed to note the much lower probability (impossibility?) that the murderer could be conscious, while all three drugs are coursing through the veins, concurrently.
 
Despite the Lancet article's presumptions and omissions, there is no scientific evidence that consciousness with pain has occurred with the amounts and methods of injecting those three chemicals within the execution period.
 
The AP article also stated that "They (death penalty opponents)  also attack lethal injection by saying that the steps to complete it haven't been reviewed by medical professionals."
 
That is both deceptive and irrelevant.
 
The unchallenged reality is that medical professionals have both reviewed and implemented injection procedures for decades. The same procedures are used in executions. Criminal justice professionals have been trained in this application.

Does anyone not know this?

The chemicals used in lethal injection, as well as their individual and collective results, at the dosages used, are also well known by medical and pharmacology professionals. And this?
 
Dr. A. Jay Chapman, the former Oklahoma Medical Examiner, who created the protocol, consulted a toxicologist and two anesthesiologists. He states the obvious " ' . . .it didn't actually require much research because the three chemicals - a painkiller, a muscle-paralyzing agent and a heart-stopper - are well-known to physicians.' 'It is anesthetizing someone for a surgical procedure, but simply carried to an extreme.' 'If it is competently administered, there will be no question about this business of pain and suffering.' "("Lethal Injection Father Defends Creation", Paul Ellias, Associated Press, 5/10/07)

Further, lethal injection is not a medical procedure, but the culmination of a judicial sentence carried out by criminal justice professionals, the result of which is intended as death, the outcome of every case. 
 
The follow up research/article is "Lethal Injection for Execution: Chemical Asphyxiation?"(Public Library of Science (PLoS) Medicine, 4/24/07). Dr. Koniaris was an author in both this and the Lancet article.

The question mark from the title says it all.
 
From the Conclusion:
 
" . . . our findings suggest that current lethal injection protocols "MAY" not reliably effect death through the mechanisms intended, indicating a failure of design and implementation. "IF" thiopental and potassium chloride fail to cause anesthesia and cardiac arrest, potentially aware inmates "COULD" die through pancuronium-induced asphyxiation." (Underline, quote , caps and color change are mine, for emphasis)
 
In other words, the authors tell us they cannot prove this has ever happened. They are speculating.

Skip the speculation: Some Reality

From Hartford Courant, "Ross Autopsy Stirs Execution Debate----Results Cited To Counter Talk Of Pre-Death Pain", August 11, 2005

The below is a paraphrase of parts of that article, including some exact quotes.

Results of the autopsy done on serial killer Michael Ross are being cited by several prominent doctors to refute a highly publicized article that appeared in The Lancet, the British medical journal, in April, 2005.

Critics of the Lancet article say it does not account for postmortem redistribution of the anesthetic - thiopental. The redistribution, the critics say, accounts for the lower levels of thiopental on which Dr. Koniaris based his Lancet article conclusions that the levels of anesthetic were inadequate. The Ross autopsy results document this redistribution, bolstering the critics' assertions.

Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, Connecticut's chief medical examiner, was aware of the controversial Lancet article before performing the Ross autopsy. As a result, he took the additional step of drawing a sample of Ross's blood 20 minutes after he was pronounced dead at 2:25 a.m. May 13. Carver took a subsequent sample during the autopsy, which began about 7 hours later, at 9:40 a.m.

The 1st sample showed a concentration of 29.6 milligrams per liter of thiopental; the second sample showed a concentration of 9.4 milligrams per liter. The 1st sample was drawn from Ross' right femoral artery, and the second from his heart, which can account for some of the discrepancy. But Dr. Mark Heath, a New York anesthesiologist and one of the numerous doctors who have signed letters to The Lancet challenging the Koniaris article, said it clearly substantiates the postmortem redistribution of the thiopental.

Dr. Jonathan Groner, a pediatric surgeon from Ohio said he interviewed a number of forensic toxicologists before adopting the view that thiopental in a corpse leaves the blood and is absorbed by the fat, causing blood samples taken hours after death to be an unreliable marker of the levels of thiopental in the body at the time of death.

Groner described the Ross autopsy results as "a powerful refutation" of the Lancet-Koniaris study.

Dr. Ashraf Mozayani, a forensic toxicologist with the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office in Texas, said the level of thiopental "drops quite a bit" after death. Even in the living, Mozayani said, thiopental levels decline rapidly after administration of the drug. She cited one study in which a patient was administered 400 milligrams of thiopental intravenously. After two minutes the concentration in the blood was measured at 28 milligrams, but dropped to 3 milligrams concentration 19 minutes after the anesthetic was injected.

Mozayani said the declining concentration of thiopental cited in the Ross autopsy report "make sense."

On The Lancet article, she said, "I don't think they have the whole story - the postmortem redistribution and all the other things they have to consider for postmortem testing." 

NOTE: I think they had and knew the whole story. They just didn't include it in their report(s).
 
The Veterinary sidetrack
 
Opponents of the death penalty, as well as other uninformed or deceptive sources, have been stating that even vets do not use the paralytic agent in the euthanasia of animals. This is a perversion of the veterinary position, which actually provides support, however unintended, for the human execution process.
Some fact checking is in order  -- www(dot)avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/euthanasia.pdf
 
 
NOTE: That said, it would be much easier to have only a one drug - anesthesia - execution and I am not sure why it isn't being done, with the possible exceptions that I have read that may result in 1) much longer execution time; 2) a deep coma, not death, but without the obvious follow up that more anesthesia could be administered to induce death and 3) much more movement, twitching and jerking, by the inmate.
 
2.  THE MEDICAL/ETHICAL DILEMMA

Medical groups cite that there is an ethical conflict for participation in the lethal injection process, because medical professionals have a requirement to "do no harm".
 
Those ethical codes pertain to the medical profession, only, and to  patients, only. Judicial execution is not part of the medical profession  and death row inmates are not patients.
 
Doctors and nurses can be police and soldiers and can kill, when deemed appropriate,  within those lines of duty and without violating the ethical codes of their medical profession. Similarly, medical professionals do not violate their codes of ethics, when acting as technical experts, for executions, in a criminal justice procedure.
 
Physicians are often part of double or triple blind studies where there is hope that the tested drugs may, someday, prove beneficial. The physicians and other researchers know that many patients, taking placebos or less effective drugs, will suffer more additional harm or death because they are not taking the subject drug or that the subject drug will actually harm or kill more patients than the placebo of other drugs used in the study.
 
Physicians  knowingly harm individual patients, in direct contradiction to their "do no harm" oath.
 
For the greater good, those physicians sacrifice innocent, willing and brave patients. Of course, there have been medical experiments without consent and, even, today, they continue ("Critical Care Without Consent", Washington Post, May 27, 2007; Page A01).
 
The greater good is irrelevant, from an ethical standpoint, if "Do no harm" means "do no harm".  Physicians knowingly make exceptions to their "do no harm" requirement, every day, within their profession, where that code actually does apply. And, they should. There are obvious moral and ethical nuances and we should consider and pay attention to them, as is done within the medical profession.
 
The "do no harm" has no ethical effect in a non medical context, because this ethical requirement is for medical treatments, only, and for patients, only.
 
For those who distort the Hippocratic oath, I would suggest they read the original, classic versions, which only prohibits abortion and euthanasia., two practices commonly accepted by many physicians.
 
The acknowledged anti death penalty editors of The Public Library of Science (PLoS) Medicine agree. They write:

"Execution by lethal injection, even if it uses tools of intensive care such as intravenous tubing and beeping heart monitors, has the same relationship to medicine that an executioner's axe has to surgery."  ("Lethal Injection Is Not Humane", PLoS, 4/24/07)

The PLoS Medicine editors have made the same point many of us have been making - similar acts and similar equipment do not establish any equivalence or connection.
 
There is no ethical connection between medicine and lethal injection. Therefore, there is no ethical prohibition for medical professionals to participate in executions.
 
To put it clearly: The execution of death row inmates is not equivalent or connected to the treatment of patients. 
 
Is this a mystery?

Obviously, execution is not a medical treatment, but a criminal justice sanction. The basis for medical treatment is to improve the plight of the patient, for which the medical profession provides obvious and daily exceptions. The basis for execution is to carry out a criminal justice sentence where death is the sanction. 

Justice, deterrence, retribution, just punishments, upholding the social contract, saving innocent life, etc.,  are all recognized as aspects of the death penalty, all dealing with the greater good.
 
Are murderers on death row willing participants? Of course. They willingly committed the crime and, therefore, willingly exposed themselves to the social contract of that jurisdiction.

Lethal injection is not a medical procedure. It is a criminal justice sanction authorized by law. Therefore, there is no ethical conflict with medical codes of conduct and medical personal participating in executions.
 
Any participation in executions by medical professionals should be a matter for their own personal conscience. In fact, 20-40% of doctors surveyed would participate in the execution process.
 
A side note:

40,000 to 100,000 innocents die, every year, in the US because of medical misadventure or improper medical treatment. (1)
 
Do no harm? The doctor doth protest too much, methinks.
 
There is no proof of an innocent executed in the US since 1900.
 

3. PROPER TRAINING
 
In every state, there are hundreds or thousands of people trained for IV application of drugs or the taking of blood.  Even many hard core drug addicts are proficient in IV application.
 
There are very few errors in lethal injections which can be attributed to personnel error. The simple fact is that, if necessary,  non medical personnel can be properly trained to mix and administer the chemicals used in lethal injection.  But, it isn't necessary.
 
It appears that some 500-1000 innocent patients die, every year, in the US, due to some type of medical misadventure, with anesthesia. (1)

I am unaware of evidence that shows criminal justice professionals are more likely to commit critical errors in the lethal injection process than are medical professionals in IV application.
 
Furthermore, even with errors in lethal injection, those cases resulted in the death of the inmate - the intended outcome for the guilty murderer.
 
In the errors of medical professionals, we are speaking of a large number of deaths and injuries to innocent patients - the opposite of the intended outcome.

1)  see   "Deaths from Medical Misadventure"at
                   www(dot)wrongdiagnosis.com/m/medical_misadventure/deaths.htm
                   and
                  "Health Grades Quality Study: Patient Safety in American Hospitals, July 2004" 
                  www.(dot)healthgrades.com/media/english/pdf/HG_Patient_Safety_Study_Final.pdf

originally written May, 2005. Updated as merited.
 
copyright 2005-2008
 
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail  sharpjfa@aol.com,  713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
 
Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, C-SPAN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS , VOA and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.
 
A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.
 
Pro death penalty sites 

homicidesurvivors(dot)com/categories/Dudley%20Sharp%20-%20Justice%20Matters.aspx

www(dot)dpinfo.com
www(dot)cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
www(dot)clarkprosecutor.org/html/links/dplinks.htm
www(dot)coastda.com/archives.html
www(dot)lexingtonprosecutor.com/death_penalty_debate.htm
www(dot)prodeathpenalty.com
www(dot)yesdeathpenalty.com/deathpenalty_co
yesdeathpenalty.googlepages.com/home2 (Sweden)
www(dot)wesleylowe.com/cp.html

Permission for distribution of this document, in whole or in part,  is approved with proper attribution.

wj has two concerns:

1) a concern for innocents executed.

2)the cost of the death penalty

You may have been a little decieved on both points:

Innocents are more at risk without the death penalty.

The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters, contact info below

Often, the death penalty dialogue gravitates to the subject of innocents at risk of execution. Seldom is a more common problem reviewed. That is, how innocents are more at risk without the death penalty.
 
Living murderers, in prison, after release or escape or after our failures to incarcerate them, are much more likely to harm and murder, again, than are executed murderers.
 
This is a truism.
 
No knowledgeable and honest party questions that the death penalty has the most extensive due process protections in US criminal law.

Therefore, actual innocents are more likely to be sentenced to life imprisonment and more likely to die in prison serving under that sentence, that it is that an actual innocent will be executed.
 
That is. logically, conclusive.
 
16 recent studies, inclusive of their defenses,  find for death penalty deterrence.
 
A surprise? No.

Life is preferred over death. Death is feared more than life.
 
Some believe that all studies with contrary findings negate those 16 studies. They don't. Studies which don't find for deterrence don't say no one is deterred, but that they couldn't measure those deterred.
 
What prospect of a negative outcome doesn't deter some? There isn't one . . . although committed anti death penalty folk may say the death penalty is the only one.
 
However, the premier anti death penalty scholar accepts it as a given that the death penalty is a deterrent, but does not believe it to be a greater deterrent than a life sentence. Yet, the evidence is  compelling and un refuted  that death is feared more than life.

"This evidence greatly unsettles moral objections to the death penalty, because it suggests that a refusal to impose that penalty condemns numerous innocent people to death." (1)
 
" . . . a serious commitment to the sanctity of human life may well compel, rather than forbid, (capital) punishment." (1)

"Recent evidence suggests that capital punishment may have a significant deterrent effect, preventing as many as eighteen or more murders for each execution." (1)
 
Some death penalty opponents argue against death penalty deterrence, stating that it's a harsher penalty to be locked up without any possibility of getting out.
 
Reality paints a very different picture.
 
What percentage of capital murderers seek a plea bargain to a death sentence? Zero or close to it. They prefer long term imprisonment.
 
What percentage of convicted capital murderers argue for execution in the penalty phase of their capital trial? Zero or close to it. They prefer long term imprisonment.
 
What percentage of death row inmates waive their appeals and speed up the execution process? Nearly zero. They prefer long term imprisonment.
 
This is not, even remotely, in dispute.
 
Life is preferred over death. Death is feared more than life.
 
Furthermore, history tells us that "lifers" have many ways to get out: Pardon, commutation, escape, clerical error, change in the law, etc.

In choosing to end the death penalty, or in choosing not implement it, some have chosen to spare murderers at the cost of sacrificing more innocent lives.
 
--------
 
Furthermore, possibly we have sentenced 20-25 actually innocent people to death since 1973, or 0.3% of those so sentenced. Those have all been released upon post conviction review. The anti death penalty claims, that the numbers are significantly higher, are a fraud, easily discoverable by fact checking.

6 inmates have been released from death row because of DNA evidence.  An additional 9 were released from prison, because of DNA exclusion, who had previously been sentenced to death.

The innocents deception of death penalty opponents has been getting exposure for many years. Even the behemoth of anti death penalty newspapers -- The New York Times -- has recognized that deception.

"To be sure, 30 or 40 categorically innocent people have been released from death row . . . ". ' (2) This when death penalty opponents were claiming the release of 119 "innocents" from death row. Death penalty opponents never required actual innocence in order for cases to be added to their "exonerated" or "innocents" list. They simply invented their own definitions for exonerated and innocent and deceptively shoe horned large numbers of inmates into those definitions - something easily discovered with fact checking.

There is no proof of an innocent executed in the US, at least since 1900.

If we accept that the best predictor of future performance is past performance, we can reasonable conclude that the DNA cases will be excluded prior to trial, and that for the next 8000 death sentences, that we will experience a 99.8% accuracy rate in actual guilt convictions. This improved accuracy rate does not include the many additional safeguards that have been added to the system, over and above DNA testing.

Of all the government programs in the world, that put innocents at risk, is there one with a safer record and with greater protections than the US death penalty?
 
Unlikely.
 
-----------------------
Full report -  All Innocence Issues: The Death Penalty, upon request.

Full report - The Death Penalty as a Deterrent, upon request
 
(1) From the Executive Summary of
Is Capital Punishment Morally Required? The Relevance of Life-Life Tradeoffs, March 2005
Prof. Cass R. Sunstein,   Cass_Sunstein(AT)law.uchicago.edu
 Prof. Adrian Vermeule ,   avermeule(AT)law.harvard.edu
Full report           http://aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/page.php?id=1131
 
(2) "The Death of Innocents': A Reasonable Doubt",
New York Times Book Review, p 29, 1/23/05, Adam Liptak,
national legal correspondent for The NY Times
-----------------------------

Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail  sharpjfa@aol.com,  713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
 
Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, C-SPAN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS , VOA and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.
 
A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.
 
Pro death penalty sites 

homicidesurvivors(dot)com/categories/Dudley%20Sharp%20-%20Justice%20Matters.aspx

www(dot)dpinfo.com
www(dot)cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
www(dot)clarkprosecutor.org/html/links/dplinks.htm
www(dot)coastda.com/archives.html
www(dot)lexingtonprosecutor.com/death_penalty_debate.htm
www(dot)prodeathpenalty.com
www(dot)yesdeathpenalty.com/deathpenalty_co
yesdeathpenalty.googlepages.com/home2 (Sweden)
www(dot)wesleylowe.com/cp.html

Permission for distribution of this document, in whole or in part,  is approved with proper attribution.

ost Comparisons: Death Penalty Cases Vs Equivalent Life Sentence Cases
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters, contact info below

In comparing the cost of death penalty cases to other sentences, the studies are woefully incomplete.
 
Generally, such studies have one or more of the following problems.
 
1) Most studies exclude the cost of geriatric care, recently found to be $60,000-$80,000/inmate/yr. A significant omission from life sentence costs.
 
2) All studies exclude the cost savings of the death penalty, which is the ONLY sentence which allows for a plea bargain to a maximum life sentence. Such plea bargains accrue as a cost benefit to the death penalty, such benefit being the cost of trials and appeals for every such plea bargain. The cost savings would be for trial and appeals, estimated at $500,000 to $1 million, which would accrue as a cost benefit/credit to the death penalty.
 
Depending upon jurisdiction, this MIGHT result in a minimal cost differential between the two sanctions or an actual net cost benefit to the death penalty, depending upon how many LWOP cases are plea bargained and how many death penalty cases result in a death sentence.
 
3) FCC economist Dr. Paul Zimmerman finds that executions result in a huge cost benefit to society. "Specifically, it is estimated that each state execution deters somewhere between 3 and 25 murders per year (14 being the average). Assuming that the value of human life is approximately $5 million {i.e. the average of the range estimates provided by Viscussi (1993)}, our estimates imply that society avoids losing approximately $70 million per year on average at the current rate of execution all else equal." The study used state level data from 1978 to 1997 for all 50 states (excluding Washington D.C.). (1)
 
That is a cost benefit of $70 million per execution.  15 additional recent studies, inclusive of their defenses,  support the deterrent effect. 
 
No cost study has included such calculations.
 
Although we find it inappropriate to put a dollar value on life, evidently this is not uncommon for economists, insurers, etc.
 
We know that living murderers are infinitely more likely to harm and murder, again, than are executed murderers. There is no doubt that executions do save innocent lives. What value do you put on the lives saved? Certainly not less than $5 million.
 
4) a) Some studies compare the cost of a death penalty case, including pre trial, trial, appeals and incarceration, to only the cost of incarceration for 40 years, excluding all trial costs and appeals, for a life sentence. The much cited Texas "study" does this.  Hardly an apples to apples cost comparison.
       b) The pure deception in some cost "studies" is overt. It has been claimed that it costs $3.2 million/execution in Florida. That "study" decided to add the cost of the entire death penalty system in Florida ($57 million), which included all of the death penalty cases and dividing that number by only the number of executions (18). One could just have easily stated that the cost of the estimated 200 death row inmates was $285,000 per case.
 
5) There is no reason for death penalty appeals to take longer than 7 years. All death penalty appeals, direct and writ, should travel through the process concurrently, thereby giving every appellate issue 7 years of consideration through both state and federal courts. There is no need for endless repetition and delay. This would result in a reduction in both adjudication and incarceration costs.
 
Judges may be the most serious roadblock in timely resolution. They can and do hold up cases, inexcusably, for long periods of time.  Texas, which leads the nation in executions, by far, takes over 10 years, on average, to execute murderers. However, the state and federal courts, for that jurisdiction,  handle many cases. Texas has the second lowest rate of the courts overturning death penalty cases. Could every other jurisdiction process appeals in 7-10 years. Of course, if the justices would allow it.
 
Justice
6) The main reason sentences are given is because jurors find that it is the most just punishment available. No state, concerned with justice, will base a decision on cost alone. If they did, all cases would be plea bargained and every crime would have a probation option.
 
1). "State Executions, Deterrence and the Incidence of Murder", Paul R. Zimmerman (zimmy@att.net), March 3. 2003, Social Science Research Network, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID354680_code021216500.pdf?abstractid=354680
 
copyright 2003-2008 Dudley Sharp
 
Dudley Sharp, Justice Matters
e-mail  sharpjfa@aol.com,  713-622-5491,
Houston, Texas
 
Mr. Sharp has appeared on ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, C-SPAN, FOX, NBC, NPR, PBS , VOA and many other TV and radio networks, on such programs as Nightline, The News Hour with Jim Lehrer, The O'Reilly Factor, etc., has been quoted in newspapers throughout the world and is a published author.
 
A former opponent of capital punishment, he has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.
 
Pro death penalty sites 

homicidesurvivors(dot)com/categories/Dudley%20Sharp%20-%20Justice%20Matters.aspx

www(dot)dpinfo.com
www(dot)cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPinformation.htm
www(dot)clarkprosecutor.org/html/links/dplinks.htm
www(dot)coastda.com/archives.html
www(dot)lexingtonprosecutor.com/death_penalty_debate.htm
www(dot)prodeathpenalty.com
www(dot)yesdeathpenalty.com/deathpenalty_co
yesdeathpenalty.googlepages.com/home2 (Sweden)
www(dot)wesleylowe.com/cp.html

Permission for distribution of this document, in whole or in part,  is approved with proper attribution.

I find two arguments for the use of the death penalty compelling. That the perpetrators of heinous crimes get to live while their victims don't is intolerable. It is not so much that we we have evened up the score with them, because we haven't: their crimes were likely infinitely more brutal and their victims innocent. Actual justice in this sense will be a function of divinity or not rendered adequately at all. It is simply my sense that if you callously or cruelly take another's life, you don't enjoy the partial triumph of survivorship.

Second, there are times when societal disorder is so pervasive and random violence so ascendent that strengthened penalties and higher probabilities of enforcement are needed. When NYC was seeing 2200 murders per year, I thought reinstatement of the death, inter alia, helped send the message that costs of criminality and likelihood they'd be paid had both increased.

Over the course of years, as order is restored, I think you can consider a moratorium because its benefits decline relative to the costs, which are real and include not just risks to innocents, but also the alienation and cynicism arising from disparate enforcement, and proper revulsion entailed by state inflicted death.

The reason that there are no problems with veterinary euthanasia is that there are no lawyers trying anything they can to have it declared unconstitutional because they can't get enough people to agree to overturn it in the legislature.

I haven't looked at any death penalty studies for a while now, but here's how the death penalty used to stack up against the generally accepted reasons for punishment in our criminal justice system.

(1) general deterrence: no effect
(2) specific deterrence: maximum effect
(3) rehabilitation: no effect
(4) retribution: great effect

General deterrence is the proposition that a given penalty will keep others from committing the same crime.

Specific deterrence is the proposition that a given penalty will keep the same person from repeating the crime. This includes the time that the person is off the streets in jail or prison.

Rehabilitation is known by everyone, but statistics on how well it really works are vague.

Retribution was greatly out of vogue when I went through law school, and it was a given that it was never an acceptable reason for punishment. I have mixed feelings about this one, but I tend to think that societal retribution is more moral than personal retribution on the part of the victim or victim's family.

My only problem with the death penalty is the uncertainty that occurs in any criminal trial: was the right person convicted? I had my share of criminal defense work, and representing "guilty" people was relatively easy--you are trying to get the person to be convicted of only the crime committed & you are trying for a reasonable punishment (believe me, getting someone off doesn't happen often in real life), and if for some reason you fail, you know that the "guilty" person actually committed the underlying act. It's representing an innocent person and failing that tears you up.

Megan: That quoted passage is little more than an appeal to emotion wrapped up in a packaging of spin. Yes, of course the death penalty involves the state taking a life. However, the defendent is being tried for the charge of having unlawfully taken a life. If the state can prove its case, then (a) the state's cause is just and (b) the defenedent's cause was not just.

I would prefer to see the death penalty invoked with considerably more discretion than it is in, say, Texas. But in the case of Florida, who knows the context in which the statement was made? Is there a Ted Bundy-type character presenlty on death row, issuing statements in mockery of the justice system? If so, then maybe the governor has a good reason for wanting to move things forward, even if he expressed it in a fashion that you found to of poor taste.

I have feelings both ways about the death penalty in theory. It is the state taking a life, which seems a bit wrong, but it also prevents a murderer from being able to murder again.

I have to admit I am okay with allowing retribution. While it seems to be appealing to our baser instincts, it also seems to be part of our hard-wired instincts.

The basic problem I have with the death penalty is the death penalty in practice. I took a law school class from a noted defense attorney last fall and ended up believing that our criminal justice system was very good at convicting people, but much weaker on convicting the right person for the right crime.

Defense attorneys are significantly under-funded and prosecuting attorneys and police officers are rewarded for catching bad guys and not punished for catching and prosecuting innocent people. A culture has also developed around prosecutors that push them in the direction of being advocates for the victim and their family as opposed to being impartial advocates for the state.

I would support the death penalty is a system that had comparable resources for defense and prosecution and experienced, professional, jurors that will not be as swayed by emotion and built-in racial or economic biases and can properly weigh the types of evidence (discounting eyewitness testimony, questioning fingerprint evidence, understanding medical examiner conflicts, respecting the science behind DNA evidence). Without that, I have a hard time supporting our current system.

The death penalty is an anachronism that is slowly giving way to more enlightened practice. It will not disappear in my lifetime, but eventually it will no longer be practiced in the U.S. Public support continues to decline as does the size of death row. No other public policy fails as frequently as capital punishment. A majority of countries have abandoned this failed policy. More states are in the process of studying its efficacy, following the lead of New Jersey. As was seen in the Baze v. Rees decision, the death penalty continues to corrupt the legal system, and politicians continue to support it as it offers them political advantage. This too will soon disappear as more citizens demand accountability and policies that work.

As an earnest young liberal, I was opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances until along came Charles Manson.

Now, not so much.

My beloved golden retriever had a lethal injection when his time had come. He licked my face as the injection was made, then within seconds slumped over, dead.

So I am sceptical about the "cruelty" of lethal injection, which in any case is better than the malefactors receiving it deserve.

"When my vet put my dog to sleep, he used a single shot which he assured me worked quickly and painlessly."

Vets used to give the three-drug cocktail to put down animals but it has been replaced by more efficient and less painful alternatives.

Thanks to Random for the links - that was remarkably informative. Odd that it wasn't covered in the university honors seminar on the death penalty.

I, too, am opposed to the death penalty, most prominently on grounds which are a slight variation of our host's: the death penalty requires ordinary human beings, guilty of nothing more than the desire for a job, to forcibly, intentionally, and in "cold blood" cause the death of a fellow human being. Execution is inhuman, counter to our natural empathy as human beings, and it sickens me to think that it is still carried out.

Of course, there are other, more important issues, but that's certainly a major one for me.

Execution is inhuman, counter to our natural empathy as human beings

No offense, but you must be very young to believe this. Open any history book at a random page, and start reading about our natural empathy as human beings. Or, alternatively, consider the natural empathy that victims' families have for the murderers of their loved ones.

I'm not holding this out as an admirable quality of human beings, but natural empathy is pretty down the list of our traits.

No offense, but you must be very young to believe this. Open any history book at a random page, and start reading about our natural empathy as human beings. Or, alternatively, consider the natural empathy that victims' families have for the murderers of their loved ones.

...point. I am very young, as it happens, and more importantly, I didn't think before I posted.

The way I see it, though, we do tend to have empathy for our fellow humans, but we also have a bad habit of leaving various large groups of people out of that category. As someone who thinks empathy is the source of morality, then, I rule any procedure which requires the extirpation of empathy as wrong.

Robin, fair enough. And thank you for not taking umbrage at my post, and for responding so thoughtfully.

I'd say we tend to feel empathy for our fellow human beings, in the absence of a reason to feel otherwise, but antipathy toward them when we perceive a reason to do so. Criminal behavior is such a reason, and arguably a sound one, IMO.

Execution is inhuman, counter to our natural empathy as human beings

One could argue that it is actually the failure to take vengeance that is inhuman, that this failure goes against our natural empathy with the person who has been killed.

This seems to be the attitude of the New Guineans described by Jared Diamond in the article linked by Jane a few days ago.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/04/21/080421fa_fact_diamond?currentPage=all

I think we have a capacity for empathy and a capacity for vengeance. Many of us feel both! One is no more human than the other.

Robin Z,

One of the themes of Diamond's article is that a major reason for vengeance is empathy. In the article, a young man learns of the death of his uncle, a man seemingly destined for a fine life. He feels strongly the life that will not be, empathizes with his uncle and feels obliged to get vengeance. Eventually, he causes the official killer of his uncle to be paralyzed by a spear. The young man is glad.

“Now, when I visit a ... village to play basketball, and [the killer] comes to watch the game in his wheelchair, I feel sorry for him,” he said. “Occasionally, I go over to [the killer], shake his hand, and tell him, ‘I feel sorry for you.’ But people see [the killer]. They know that he will be suffering all the rest of his life for having killed [my uncle]. People remember that [the killer] used to be a tall and handsome man, destined to be a future leader. But so was my uncle .... By getting [the killer] paralyzed, I gained appropriate revenge for the killing of my tall and handsome uncle, who had been very good to me, and who would have become a leader.”

I hope this country has the moral courage to embrace the death penalty in all its splendor! I long for the day when we can join the ethical countries, such as China, Burma, and Iran, all of which practice execution with an avidiity that should make us ashamed of ourselves.

Why can vets put dogs to sleep with one shot while executioners have to go through this whole rigmarole? I don't have to expertise to confirm it, but I suspect it's one of two things:

1) The single shot is probably mainly a massive dose of narcotics, similar in effect to a huge heroin overdose. Someone's afraid that a condemned murderer might have too much fun if we used that on him...

2) Lethal drugs can cause lots of thrashing around even though the brain is far beyond feeling any pain. They worry more about grossing the spectators out than about whether the condemned is actually suffering. (If the only concern is a humane execution, you just put a heavy caliber gun to the back of the head and blow the brain apart instantly - but it's messy.)

Considering that Megan lead the discussion with something close to an Appeal to Emotion, I guess it's only fitting that the Appeals to Belief and Common Practice have been introduce, along with more than a little Begging the Question.

One potentially compelling reason to oppose, which only a few people have touched upon, is the frailty of human justice at correctly identifying the guilt of a murderer (or convicting the innocent). More like that, please.

And meanwhile, a flipside point: What if the complete absence of any death penalty lead people to believe the state as incapable of administering justice, and consequently, they felt more entitled to take it into their own hands? We in the US have been fortunate to have a long, generally dry spell from political assassinations, dominance of organized crime, and lynch mobs; and relatively few mass riots, too. But if people believe strongly that the justice system is failing to achieve its purpose, they might well take things back into their own hands.

Witness the reaction to the verdict in the Sean Bell case, for example. It didn't yield a period of rioting, but under slightly weaker social conditions...

Markm, sorry to indulge in recounting melodramatic anecdotal evidence, but my beloved pup didn't thrash around. He just slumped sideways, dead. Loving him as much as I did, I was too upset to inquire after the composition of the injection, despite being a chemist, but it wasn't ten seconds after the vet pushed the syringe's plunger before he was gone. No heartbeat, no thrashing, nothing.

It makes me sad to this day to think about it.

Supporters of the death penalty have to answer the simple question: how many innocent people are you willing to kill? If your answer is zero, then ipso facto you must be against the death penalty.

While certainly the number of actual innocents executed is probably small (though the recent death row releases and exonerations based on DNA evidence suggest it is definitely not zero), I for one cannot accept or justify the killing of even one innocent person in my name. What would you say to his family? That this occasional mistake is the price they must pay for the greater social good? Sorry, not me.

It is always surprising to me that the most vociferous supporters of the death penalty are on the right, people who generally believe that government doesn't work very well, and doesn't get it right much of the time. Why do they have such confidence that in this case, which is so driven by passionate community outrage at heinous crimes, our state apparatus is flawless? Sorry, not me.

Supporters of the death penalty have to answer the simple question: how many innocent people are you willing to kill?

That is an excellent question. How many innocent people are killed by criminals in places where there is no death penalty who might be deterred if there were?

That too is an excellent question AT, another question would be – how many people are murdered by criminals while they’re in prison or after they have either escaped or been paroled from prison?

I, too, am opposed to the death penalty, most prominently on grounds which are a slight variation of our host's: the death penalty requires ordinary human beings, guilty of nothing more than the desire for a job, to forcibly, intentionally, and in "cold blood" cause the death of a fellow human being.

I'd suspect that prisons have no trouble finding volunteers to carry out executions. I think guards would be pretty stoked to get rid of some of the worst of the worst.

Supporters of the death penalty have to answer the simple question: how many innocent people are you willing to kill? If your answer is zero, then ipso facto you must be against the death penalty.

Frankly, this rhetorical question strikes me as a bit sophomoric. Any judicial system is going to make mistakes. If you're unwilling to risk making any mistake, then you do nothing at all, and that too is a mistake.

I think a more (ahem) nuanced and subtle perspective considers the criminal justice system's remit to be to minimize - not eliminate, which while desirable is not achievable - the level of terror and injustice in society.

To put it another way, how many innocent people are you willing to imprison? (Given that you don't know which ones are actually innocent.)

As a Texan, a libertarian, and a long-time admirer of Camus (am I the only one who loved The Rebel?), I have to chime in on this one...

I'm surprised to see the comments dominated by utilitarian cost-benefit considerations. While I don't think that natural rights-based reasoning answers all the important political and legal questions, murder is serious business; and when it comes to the idea of legitimizing state-sponsored murder, cost-benefit wankers can just go stuff themselves, as far as I'm concerned.

All issues of magnitude of deterrence, or the accuracy of legal determinations are beside the point here. The U.S. system was based upon the principle that government has no rights above or beyond those that we have as individuals. The cold-blooded killing of another person who is not an immediate threat is not something anyone has a legitimate right to do*, so there is no way a legitimate government has the right to do so either. Life imprisonment is a clear extension of arrest and banishment, much easier to redress in case of error, and clearly less questionable than murder.

Additionally, there are slippery slope considerations as well. The more that capital 'punishment' is accepted for 'heinous' crimes, the more one would expect political entrepreneurs who desire to seem 'tough on crime' to seek to extend murder as punishment to other, less serious crimes. Indeed in modern times politicians have argued for extending the death 'penalty' to victimless offenses such as drug crimes, where it is notoriously easy to manufacture evidence, when desired.

*nor is stealing from someone because they are rich and you want to give money to someone who is poor, or making someone pay for someone else's health care, or keeping someone from hiring someone else because you don't like the wage or working conditions they are offering...

No offense taken, Occam's Beard. Glad to be discussing this.

I'd say we tend to feel empathy for our fellow human beings, in the absence of a reason to feel otherwise, but antipathy toward them when we perceive a reason to do so. Criminal behavior is such a reason, and arguably a sound one, IMO.

I don't see antipathy and empathy as mutually exclusive, but I see what you mean. Still, I don't see why we should consider the lives of even the most heinous criminals worthless - consider W. C. Minor.

Roger Sweeny One of the themes of Diamond's article is that a major reason for vengeance is empathy. In the article, a young man learns of the death of his uncle, a man seemingly destined for a fine life. He feels strongly the life that will not be, empathizes with his uncle and feels obliged to get vengeance. Eventually, he causes the official killer of his uncle to be paralyzed by a spear. The young man is glad.

I can empathize perfectly with that young man. I still believe he did wrong, or, more kindly, that he could have done better.

matt foley I'd suspect that prisons have no trouble finding volunteers to carry out executions. I think guards would be pretty stoked to get rid of some of the worst of the worst.

So once a human being qualifies as "the worst of the worst", they shouldn't count as a human being any more?

Really, I can't illuminate my stance any better than it was in the original post. I believe that extraordinary circumstances - a clear and present danger to the populace, for example - are justified to require the killing of a human being, and that those circumstances are never met in the context of an execution.

legitimizing state-sponsored murder

A classic example of begging the question.

cost-benefit wankers can just go stuff themselves

Texas is now part of Britain? Note: you need to work on your faux Texan. This doesn’t make it. Put on the kettle and try again.

The U.S. system was based upon the principle that government has no rights above or beyond those that we have as individuals.

Uh, no. The state can imprison people. Individuals cannot. The state can draft people. Individuals cannot. The state can extract taxes from people. Individuals cannot. The state can condemn property under eminent domain. Individuals cannot.

I strongly support the death penalty, and I also support the fairly swift imposition of the death penalty, so I easily understand the reaction of the Florida Governor.

If the purpose of the death penalty is to deter and to be retributive, then it must be carried out swiftly or it loses its impact (with due process, but not excessive process).

For, "When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, the hearts of the people are filled with schemes to do wrong." Ecclesiastes 8:11

Just as important to understand where the death penalty comes from:
And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

"Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man."

Genesis 9:5-6

Let me come back to the canine situation, Robin.

As is doubtless apparent, I'm a huge dog lover. Nevertheless, some dogs need to be put down, because they are vicious and dangerous. (For example, the Cana Presarios that savaged that woman to death in SF.) So while I feel empathy toward dogs in general, I accept that some specific dogs need to be put down for the good of all (people and dogs).

I'm not an enthusiastic proponent of the death penalty, but rather a reluctant one. I think it's important that, e.g., those serving life sentences have something left to lose if they murder (NB the correct use of this word) a prison guard.

A bit about the 3drug execution. The first, sodium pentathal, is a barbituate. Altho used in inducing anesthesia it is not in any way a painkiller. It puts one to sleep--a very very deep sleep--but does not block any pain receptors.

The 2d is a curare-type drug. It also does nothing to block pain. It paralyzes the skeletal (not the autonomic) muscles so that respirations stop but not the heartbeat.

The 3d, potassium chloride is of course a mineral used by the body in regulating muscle activity. In extremely high levels it slows and then stops the heart. Unfortunately at the level needed to do this it is extremely painful to administer. A person receiving potassium by vein feels strong burning sensation in the vein. If the potassium escapes the vein and gets into the tissue it causes a chemical burn, a deep sore, as the flesh actually falls apart.

In Florida the last execution before the 'stay' that resulted from the SupremeCourt agreeing to hear the Kentucky case was bungled by the person who started the IV. Part of the fluid injected went into the tissue of the executed person who then took a long long time to die because he didn't get the full dose. If he'd lived he'd have had a large chemical burn from the site of the IV.

The 'Innocence Project' is on-line with amazing statistics that demonstrate that many innocent people have been convicted of capital crimes.

The issue at hand is not whether the gov't has a hypothetical 'right' to deprive guilty persons of their life. It is do we agree that AS PERFORMED do we support capital punishment. Seems to me that it is difficult to support executions as we know them.

Robin Z - As someone who thinks empathy is the source of morality, then, I rule any procedure which requires the extirpation of empathy as wrong.

Some people found their morality on a belief in God and, by extension, natural rights. Empathy tends to be a very unreliable and biased emotion and I'd hope we have some other rule to set us back on track when it fails.


The 'Innocence Project' is on-line with amazing statistics that demonstrate that many innocent people have been convicted of capital crimes.

IIRC, the "Innocence Project" has people who have been freed on new evidence. This does not mean, necessarily, that they were in fact innocent any more than the previous trial meant that they were guilty.

The U.S. system was based upon the principle that government has no rights above or beyond those that we have as individuals. The cold-blooded killing of another person who is not an immediate threat is not something anyone has a legitimate right to do.

Actually, the US system is based upon the principle that the people decide which rights they will confer upon the government. It's possible they don't teach that in Civics 101 glasses in the great state of Texas, what with the "Don't Tread on Me" business ingrained into the local culture, but if you doubt its factuality, try violating any of those things Occam cited a few posts up and let me know how that goes.

Now, it is evidently true that people generally will not want the government to have substantially more rights than they themselves have. Thus, witness the growing number of states that now have laws for concealed-carry permits and variants of "Castle Doctrine" defense. The only difference is, in general and to-date, the majority of US citizens apparently prefer that individuals take the death penalty into their own hands only when facing an immediate threat, while the government is conferred with the right to apply it after the fact upon compelling evidence of guilt.

And yes, as others have variously noted in the thread, it is possible to get the wrong guy. This strikes me as a cause to maintain the death penalty only for the highest forms of capital crime, and maintain or even reinforce a system of appeals with multiple opportunities over an extended period of time to show that a previous court has erred. It does not strike me as compelling cause to throw the baby, bathwater, and basin out the window and then give the mother a tubal ligation.

I'm mildly against the death penalty because I don't think the government should be in the business of killing its own citizens, no matter what the reason. There are too many slippery slopes in that direction, and most of our fellow western nations (to say nothing of the non-western ones) have slid down that slope at one time or another.

Robin Z - As someone who thinks empathy is the source of morality, then, I rule any procedure which requires the extirpation of empathy as wrong.

Some people found their morality on a belief in God and, by extension, natural rights. Empathy tends to be a very unreliable and biased emotion and I'd hope we have some other rule to set us back on track when it fails.

Let me break it into two parts - first, God-driven morality, and second, unreliability of empathy.

First. What morality is implied by a belief in God? Pro-life or pro-choice? Pro-capital-punishment or anti-death-penalty? Is familial responsibility more important than universal responsibility? If a non-human turned out to be intellectually and emotionally structured in a way that would render it indistinguishable in a Turing Test sort of way, would that non-human have human rights? Are we obliged to give to the poor? Is lying ever justified? When is lying justified? None of these questions are answered the same way by everyone who believes in God.

Further, even ignoring the decided lack of a consensus on what God says, basing morality on God is extraordinarily dicey. Allow me to steal a line from Plato's Socrates for a moment: is it good because God supports it, or does God support it because it is good?

On top of that. it is increasingly clear that an intellectually honest person need not be certain that God even exists. Dare we build our house on what may well be sand?

Second. To say that empathy is "unreliable" is more revealing than you know. Empathy is unreliable, in that we often fail to empathize through misunderstanding or callousness, but we can tell that is our empathy that has been less than it should be. We have failed to love our neighbor, one might say. Observe how the switch from "defendant" to "human being" in the passage our host cites above causes such a visceral emotional reaction - a reaction which is, under ordinary circumstances, what stops us from carrying out our average murderous impulse. (How many people who say "So-and-so should be removed from the gene pool" actually do so? Not many.)

Of course people can resist the conclusion. But they do so by resisting the premise, the original motion of the defendant into the realm of "people like me", with arguments that the defendant is not a person like them, that the horror of his crime demonstrates he has not earned - or that he has forfeited - personhood in the morally relevant sense, and so the passage must be read as an invalid emotional appeal.

And I do not concur. I think that normal, sane, innocent human beings are not far at all from murderers and torturers and the like, and that they are deluding themselves when they draw a wiggly line around those who actually commit such acts and say, "The creatures on the other side are monsters, and we are not." These creatures are humans as much as we are. And when we empathize with them, it becomes clear just how monumental the decision to kill them is.

I would support the execution of Dudley Sharp.

It would be better if Mr. Sharp had linked, rather than copy+pasted*, those articles.

* When I wrote that, I immediately started wondering whether copy+pasting is incompatible with copy-pasting. I am a dweeb.

Robin Z

First. What morality is implied by a belief in God?

Natural rights, equality before God and law and rule of law.

None of these questions are answered the same way by everyone who believes in God.

agreed. But that's not to imply that there's no standard whatsoever, or that religion itself doesn't tend to take a certain stance on the issue. People who believe in God can believe in a "Right to Privacy" and even a society which tacitly allows people to fall away a certain distance from what they believe is right for the sake of freedom.

Is lying ever justified?

Within the Judeo-Christian tradition, yes. It is justified to save a life, certainly. It is also justified to make someone feel better about some matter of opinion. It is not justified in order to cheat someone (though the application in warfare is questionable.)

You could say morality here derives from compassion, I agree. I'm not sure that's always the case, though.

Further, even ignoring the decided lack of a consensus on what God says, basing morality on God is extraordinarily dicey. Allow me to steal a line from Plato's Socrates for a moment: is it good because God supports it, or does God support it because it is good?

The religious belief is that there is a portion of God in us, allowing us to recognize what is good. We also have free will, so we're not forced to use this ability. But a thing is good because God supports it. Another way of looking at this is that there are ways of life and of death written in the (created) world, and some things (prostitution, lets say) cause a great deal of demonstratable damage to society and the individuals in it. I am assuming, a priori, that certain things (death, physical sacrifice which is not for some higher goal and so on) are bad. But I cannot prove this and a person who has different assumptions, such as that physical pleasure is worth a significant risk of death will reach different conclusions.

One problem with basing morality on compassion, is that it very easily justifies things like theft for the sake of members of society seen as needy. The result of such actions can very easily be harmful taken in aggregate.

On top of that. it is increasingly clear that an intellectually honest person need not be certain that God even exists. Dare we build our house on what may well be sand?

I don't think that it is increasingly clear, but that's a whole other debate. Let me leave that aside and address the issue a different way.

The constitution explicitly says that people are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. So if God may be "sand" then the question is not whether we should build on what may be sand but rather what will be the result of entirely altering the current foundation (which may be currently happening.)

We should compare American society, then, to some other society where morality is seen as deriving from compassion and look honestly at the result. I'm not familiar with the Thai constitution, but that's a primarily Buddhist nation. Buddhism bases its morality on compassion. To my (admittedly highly biased) way of thinking American society is much better to its people. It allows for the creation of greater industry, is not still saddled with a monarchy, does not tolerate widespread prostitution, and so on.

Or for a fairer comparison in terms of economic development, we could compare a country like the Philippines to Thailand, possibly, though my knowledge of both is somewhat limited.

If you can think of better nations for this experiment on what morality should be based on, please let me know.

Megan:
I suspect that questions about the humaneness of lethal injection are fueled more by ideological opposition to the death penalty in general than by problems specific to lethal injection. I'd bet against long odds that the exact same people would find a reason to object to any proposed alternative.

Bouncing_B:
Supporters of the death penalty have to answer the simple question: how many innocent people are you willing to kill? If your answer is zero, then ipso facto you must be against the death penalty.

How many innocent people are you willing to imprison for the rest of their lives? If your answer is zero, then ipso facto you must be against life sentences. Granted, killing someone is worse, and in principle less reversible, than lifetime imprisonment, but since death penalty cases receive greater scrutiny, it's not clear that an innocent person is not, on average, better off on death row than serving a life sentence.

To answer the question, I am willing to execute innocent people, provided that the death penalty does indeed deter murder and save the lives of far more innocent people than it takes.

We do things all the time that have a small chance of killing innocent people (e.g., driving, mining, making swimming pools), yet we do them anyway because we believe the benefits to be worth the risk. I don't see why the death penalty should be exempt from the same cost-benefit analysis just because the mechanism is more direct.

This particular death penalty opponent would like to acknowledge Brandon Berg's point about cost-benefit analysis. There is a legitimate argument to be had about it, and I am not knowledgeable enough of the research to know if there's any kind of consensus on the data. Had I no moral objections to the practice, those would be the grounds on which I would make my decision and argue my case.

(P.S. As of this posting, I have a lengthy reply to Ryan W. sitting in the queue to be authorized - I didn't intend to run away or anything, I think I just had too many links or some such.)

I would be willing to consider supporting the death penalty if it could be applied only to people who had been videotaped in the commission of the crime or unarguably witnessed by at least 10 people (backed up by DNA evidence), if it were only handed down by people who did not know the race of the person they were sentencing, and if it could made to cost less rather than more than imprisoning someone for life.

This is an site with an economic orientation. As such I would expect that readers would see the death penalty as salutary ex ante signalling. Each of us comprising the 300 million here in the USA knows that, say, murder will result in the death penalty. Why, then, is it surprising ex post that one is condemned to death.
Much of the commentary deals with the nuances of proving guilt. Presumably those thus concerned with the loss of innocent life (the accused who is not guilty) just as aggressivly support the mounting of stilletto-like devices on the steering wheels of cars to promote the use of seat belts less innocent, but forgetful or wilfull, drivers don't buckle their seat belts.

This is an site with an economic orientation. As such I would expect that readers would see the death penalty as salutary ex ante signalling. Each of us comprising the 300 million here in the USA knows that, say, murder will result in the death penalty. Why, then, is it surprising ex post that one is condemned to death.
Much of the commentary deals with the nuances of proving guilt. Presumably those thus concerned with the loss of innocent life (the accused who is not guilty) just as aggressivly support the mounting of stilletto-like devices on the steering wheels of cars to promote the use of seat belts less innocent, but forgetful or wilfull, drivers don't buckle their seat belts.

Gotcha Robin, and thanks for that. The well documented replies are punished by the spam catcher, unfortunately. I think chances are it will just sit waiting to be authorized. Megan? Could we get some help with Robin's comment?

Just sticking my head in to say that as far as I was taught, the government doesn't have rights. It has powers. Individuals have rights.

Absolutely, if you'll give me an approximate time of posting. We get hundreds of spam an hour now, so I need an approximate time. That's also why I'm no longer fishing stuff out on my own; it's just too time consuming.