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A long post on race that is not particularly original, and will probably get me in trouble

15 May 2008 03:35 pm

I recently surprised the hell out of a male friend who considers himself fairly feminist by mentioning that I got catcalled an average of at least once a day. Like Ezra, he'd basically never seen it happen, and had assumed it wasn't really much of a problem.

It doesn't bother me as much as it bothers Catherine (and I was recently told by a middle aged woman that it will bother me even more when it stops.) But it's weird that this fairly common feature of my life is invisible to the men I know. And for the record--thank you gents, but I do not actually enjoy having random strangers remarking on the length of my legs, or what they would like to do with them. And there is a special place in hell reserved for men who grope women in crowded bars.

In a similar vein, I had no idea that black people get followed around retail establishments--even though I worked retail on the (then) very racially integrated Upper West Side. Then a friend mentioned, offhand, that it happened to her at least once on most shopping trips. I was shocked. She's the most uptight, upright person I know, and a skilled professional. I never thought of following anyone around, but if I had, I would never have imagined following someone like her around a store. But once she said it, I saw clerks do it to other minority women.

That's why I'm willing to cut Reverend Jeremiah Wright really quite a lot of slack: because my perception of the level of racism in America is considerably affected by the fact that it mostly doesn't happen around me. When my friend and I went into a store, she was protected by my halo of whiteness--she's with a white woman, so she's probably not a thief. In the company of white people, blacks aren't treated like they don't belong somewhere.

I don't mean to imply that I think we're still living under Jim Crow. And it's not necessarily even a function of dominance. A white friend mentioned going into a black gay bar where he was the only white man, and suddenly feeling . . . invisible. No one was rude, but no one looked at him either--it was as if he was a slightly out-of-place chair. "Imagine," said this fairly conservative gay man, "what it must be like to feel like that all the time."

I can't. But I'm guessing I'd be kind of resentful about it.

Watching the Obama/Wright fooforaw unfold, I was reminded of two things: a bad television show, and a good C.S. Lewis piece. The bad television show was something called Black. White. on FX. The show took two families, one black and one white, and made them up to look like members of the other race, then put them in various situations. The makeup jobs were not very convincing, since there's a lot more to ethnicity than skin tone. But I guess since you're not really expecting someone to dress up in blackface--or whiteface--it was good enough to pass.

There was one scene where the black father, Brian, took the white father, Bruno, to buy a car. Bruno was the lone holdout saying that racism just wasn't a problem, which made Brian pretty mad. So they went to buy a car so that Bruno could see what it was like to be treated like a black man in that situation.

Surprisingly, even Brian had to admit that it didn't go as badly as he expected; Bruno was treated better than Brian had ever been. The show didn't really explore this insight, but it seems really important: racism isn't a fact, it's a process. If people follow you around stores sometimes, you're tense and expecting bad treatment when you go in. People react to that by being tense and hostile themselves, and it escalates. The very fact that Bruno was wrong about racism probably got him better treatment: he wasn't expecting to be slighted, and that undoubtedly changed the way he dealt with the salesman. Or you can say that still having internalized the dominant paradigm, he treated the salesman as an "us" rather than a "then".

That's why I thought, too, of C. S. Lewis, and what he wrote about the commandment to "Love thy neighbor":

. . . we might try to understand exactly what loving your neighbour as yourself means. I have to love him as I love myself. Well, how exactly do I love myself?


Now that I come to think of it, I have not exactly got a feeling of fondness or affection for myself, and I do not even always enjoy my own society. So apparently "Love your neighbour" does not mean "feel fond of him" or "find him attractive". I ought to have seen that before, because, of course, you cannot feel fond of a person by trying. Do I think well of myself, think myself a nice chap? Well I am afraid I sometimes do (and those are, no doubt, my worst moments) but that is not why I love myself. In fact it is the other way round: my self-love makes me think myself nice, but thinking myself nice is not why I love myself. So loving my enemies does not apparently mean thinking them nice either. That is an enormous relief. For a good many people imagine that forgiving your enemies means making out that they are really not such bad fellows after all, when it is quite plain that they are. Go a step further. In my most clear-sighted moments not only do I not think myself a nice man, but I know that I am a very nasty ones. I can look at some of the things I have done with horror and loathing. So apparently I am allowed to loathe and hate some of the things my enemies do. Now that I come to think of it, I remember Christian teachers telling me long ago that I must hate a bad man's actions, but not hate the bad man: or, as they would say, hate the sin but not the sinner.

For a long time I used to think this a silly, straw-splitting distinction: how could you hate what a man did and not hate the man? But years later it occurred to me that there was one man to whom I had been doing this all of my life--namely myself. However much I might dislike my own cowardice or conceit or greed, I went on loving myself. There had never been the slightest difficulty about it. In fact the very reason why I hated the things was that I loved the man. Just because I loved myself, I was sorry to find that I was the sort of man who did those things. Consequently, Christianity does not want us to reduce by one atom the hatred we feel for cruelty and treachery. We ought to hate them. Not one word of what we have said about them needs to be unsaid. But it does want us to hate them in the same way in which we hate things in ourselves: being sorry that the man should have done such things, and hoping, if it is anyway possible, that somehow, sometime, somewhere he can be cured and made human again.

Things have gotten better, and continue to do so. But even though most blacks and whites do not consider themselves enemies, the two communities often do not consider each other as being part of the same "self". If a white clerk is rude to you, maybe it's racism; if a black clerk does it, she's just having a bad day. If a black kid sells drugs, he's a dangerous felon; if a middle class white kid does it, he's a good kid going through a phase.

I see the two communities looking suspiciously at each other and saying "Once you have perfected yourself, then I will love you as myself." But this will not work. The very act of watching the other, at a distance, for signs of change creates the problem we want to solve.

And I saw Obama's speech as trying to bridge that divide--to say, as someone who had one foot in each community, "This is why the way they do things you don't like--not because they're different, but because they're very much like you." To be sure, he did it in a hamfisted way. But the grandmother example was, I thought, less an attempt to throw Grandma under the bus then to say that "racism is not the same thing as being an evil person". I'd venture to say that most white people know at least one older person who is both an extremely good, moral and virtuous person, and a racist. When it is a grandmother, a beloved teacher, a longtime employer, or a friend's parent, we discount their unacceptable beliefs, because we have personal proof of their general goodness. Thus we come to understand that good people can have very bad ideas. I think it was perfectly fair of Obama to extend that same charity to Reverend Wright.

Part of the problem is that both communities were outraged, and neither seems to have very well understood that his speech had offended the other as deeply as it had offended them. Criticizing Wright, an elder in a community that deeply values respect and deference to your elders, was as big a deal as admitting that, yes, many of us have friends and relatives who say appalling things sometimes. The other problem is that Obama comes out of a very specific white community, the academic/professional elite. It's a community that prides itself on being less racist than the more benighted classes, and that couldn't help but come through. And the rest of the white community is profoundly sick of being lectured by us on morality, so being told that Obama thought they were all secret racists didn't go down very well.

The truth, which is hardly original to me, is that we are all racist, in that we still think of race as an important difference. Which of course, it is, if only by virtue of the fact that we all think so. But I don't think that Obama meant to be insulting, and I don't even think he is elitist in the way that his critics believed. The fact is that Obama does know more about race than most of us, because he actually knows what it's like to be inside, and outside, of both communities. That's worth listening to even if it doesn't always come out quite right.

Comments (145)

Men don't catcall women who are accompanied by other men, as a general rule. I suppose the same applies to store surveillance and blacks shopping with whites, though it is something I have never noted personally.

All in all, Megan, this was a very good essay. I doubt it will get you into trouble with anyone of true significance.

Damn, Megan...That is one sexy essay you wrote there.

That's interesting. I've never seen a woman get catcalled, ever. And, actually, though I know some very attractive women, I've only ever heard one of them remark about being catcalled and she was bringing it up to a group of other women because it had never happened to her before and they all felt the same way.

I should add that these people all live in NYC, not some Mormon outpost where catcalling may not be very prevalent.

I'm not doubting you, it just seems odd that it could be a daily occurence for you and so rare for my friends, although perhaps it's not and I'm as clueless as your male friend.

In another respect, I find it somewhat hilarious that you can have regular occassions to both be a) catcalled for being an attractive female and b) mistaken for a man. Perhaps someday we could get those two groups together, I feel they may have much to share with each other.

And what of those of us who are neither black nor white, have experienced racism from both blacks and whites, and are not willing to cut him any slack because we don't condone racism from any source?

The fact is that Obama does know more about race than most of us

That's undoubtedly true, but the problem is that he's running for office, which makes pretty much everything out of his mouth a part of the calculation aimed at getting votes. Which means I have no choice but to discount it steeply when considering its probable truth.

Incidentally, I concur with Yancy; your treatment of issues like this (and abortion, gay marriage, and the like) are what keep me coming back.

Yancey, I agree that men don't catcall women accompanied by men. I think that would be a pretty direct invitation to a confrontation and I say that as a very non-confrontational man.

Oh yeah, I have heard horror stories about the gropers at bars, Megan, and I agree about reserving a place in hell for them.

On the lighter side, a friend was telling me last night about accidentally bumping into someone at a bar who was tall with a punk haircut and, assuming it was another man, casually slapping him on the chest and apologizing for having banged into him. It was at that moment that he realized it was a woman. He tried to apologize by saying "I'm so sorry! I thought you were a man! Oh! That came out wrong!" and then fled the bar in humiliation.

Great post. Here comes the 1000-comment thread!

"racism is not the same thing as being an evil person"

Unfortunately, there are lots and lots of people who can't accept this as potentially true.

When my friend and I went into a store, she was protected by my halo of whiteness--she's with a white woman, so she's probably not a thief.

Just really like that sentence.

Originality is overrated. Clarity, especially for those of us who have trouble achieving it, is also appreciated.

I'll join the crowd saying how much they enjoyed the post. I have no idea if it is right, but it is thoughtful and clearly written - both good signs.

Is this reverse trolling?

This is a very minor point to an excellent post, but here in NYC, where I sometimes shop in ethnic stores in places like Jackson Heights, I will sometimes get closely followed around the store by an employee who thinks I'm there to shoplift. Whenever that happens I always treat the employee as my personal assistant, make her give me the prices for things, explain whether they have this in different colors, pull things off the top shelf, make her check the storeroom, etc.
Turns an otherwise annoying situation into a fun one.

But as for catcalls, there's nothing you can do to turn those around, however.

Miss McArdle, I suspect you are catcalled because you are (in certain respects) exceptional, and that it is invisible to the men around you in part for reasons already referred to and in part because even quite close friends usually spend only a small fraction of the week with one.

As for the store clerks issue, I would not want to be dismissive of it. However, we all carry with us a paradigm of the world in which we live, which includes a certain understanding of social signals and assumptions about what interests and motivates people. If yours are off-kilter, you will be given to connecting dots which are (in truth) just dots. (If you have ever been proximate to someone suffering a bout of clinical paranoia, you get a particularly florid demonstration of the problem of epistemology in every day life).

As for the car dealerships, is not that called 'third-degree price discrimination', or actuarial calculations about what different segments of the market will bear?

The entire Rev. Wright brouhaha bored me, in that tolerating loons in the pulpit has a long history in American politics. I thought Obama's relationship to Bill Ayers, while not that big a deal, was more odd, in that by the time Obama started associating with him, however tangentally, Obama clearly had huge political ambition, and hanging around unrepentent terrorist bombers when one has huge political ambitions is pretty reckless.

As to catcalling, being well mannered is not a common attribute, so it's prevalence does not surprise me. Groping people in bars is a form of battery, and if a woman were to respond by driving her spiked heel through the offender's foot, it would be understandable.

I think it is true that when we make a belief categorically "bad" it is possible that we make it more difficult to combat. If being even a little bit racist makes one a social pariah then people engage in denial that makes it hard to directly address this issue and actually figure out how silly these views actually are.

I like to consider the Irish example to see how silly historical racism looks to modern eyes. There was a time in American and British history when signs like "no Irish need" apply were actually posted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_racism has a sample from a print ad.

I challenge the average North American to identify a person of Irish descent today. It's pretty challenging and we are not trained to spot "trademark hints" of this pedigree.

This really makes me think that racism is a social construct and the sooner it is gone the better. One of the first ways is to accept that honest discourse means that some people will have to admit to these views and honestly discuss them.

So I think Megan is doing us a service by posting a frank discussion on this point.

Might the fact that black people are more likely to be followed around the store be due to the fact that thieves are disproportionately black? I used to get followed around stores as a teenager, and presumably for much the same reason -- teenagers do more shoplifting than adults.

If you have two customers, one white and one black, it makes sense to devote your attention to the black one. That's just playing the odds.

But as for catcalls, there's nothing you can do to turn those around, however.

I think replying in a voice deep enough to convince the caller that you're a drag queen would do the trick.

Eh, my voice is pretty deep . . .

Think Doctor Girlfriend deep...

Let's see.

When I was in my twenties and often working in areas with many hispanics, I catcalled often and loudly. I enjoyed it and I never saw a woman who was offended by it. Seriously. What about American women who travel to Europe, return and then remark about differences between American and European men?

Why are there differences? Because you jump down our throats when we try to appreciate you. I still remember the last time I held a door for a woman only to be yelled at for being a "sexist bastard!". Now I don't even bother any more. You got two arms, you open it.

IMO all the rules got changed and now it's hard to determine what they are. Honestly I think the day prostitution is legalized it'll be the death of dating.

Huzzah for the Venture Bros shoutout! Season 3 starts soon.

I'll chime in with congrats on the essay, and share a personal story. Driving back from San Benito, TX with a fellow military member and friend of mine, we were coming up on a checkpoint. My friend remarked to me, "Watch, I ALWAYS get stopped and my car searched when I go through here, but I won't because you're driving."

Sure enough, we passed without incident. This is why the backlash based on the Rev Wright thing was so surprising to me. Being in the military, and dealing with all sorts of races, I've heard/seen some of these theories before. I forget others can be more insular/isolated.

When my friend and I went into a store, she was protected by my halo of whiteness--she's with a white woman, so she's probably not a thief. ... If people follow you around stores sometimes, you're tense and expecting bad treatment when you go in. People react to that by being tense and hostile themselves, and it escalates. The very fact that Bruno was wrong about racism probably got him better treatment: he wasn't expecting to be slighted, and that undoubtedly changed the way he dealt with the salesman.

Exactly. It's not race, but demeanor, that probably makes the biggest difference. I've had grad students from Africa (i.e., no-foolin' Africans, right off the plane) and they (by their own accounts, at least, and we had pretty frank discussions) did not encounter problems (I was worried that they might).

But then, they didn't expect problems, nor did they act as if they did. In some indefinable way they seemed just like deeply tanned people, who didn't especially stand out. Call it the "Sidney Poitier effect," but they seemed to fit in easily. naturally, and unself-consciously. Very eye-opening.

Also eye-opening: their views on American black culture, which one of them characterized (unbidden) as "clownish." (!)

I want to thank you for a truly exceptional thoughtful essay; it was very well written and very personal. You bring up a lot of great points and a lot of very important issues we should all be thinking about. But I can't say I fully agree with your conclusion.

First off, we need to be clear about the fact that Obama is a politician running for a political office. That was his decision and we need to receive all of his statements as such, as a politician stumping for votes.
Secondly, none of us is responsible for setting him up as the Great Hope of Change; he did that himself. He was the one who declared himself as the great inheritor of Martin Luther King, Jr's legacy. That puts an entirely different spin on everything that comes out of his mouth, and as such, we have every right to percieve his statements more harshly than a beloved relative who may be slightly misinformed or even abhorishly bigoted.

My whole problem with this issue is that everyone seems so hellbent on bending over backwards to excuse, explain, or cast aside Obama's various statements and his extended relationship with Reverend Wright. No matter what you have to say about the topic, no matter how eloquent or well-thought out, it doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be the ones excusing or apologizing for his statements.
Obama set himself up as the Great Hope; it should be his responsibility to clarify his own statements and issue any necessary apologies. That's not our job. We can discuss the issues, certainly, but we don't need to excuse Obama when he hasn't even attempted to properly excuse himself.
If, after his 'typical white woman' fauxpas, Obama had written the words I just read in this essay, I would have been moved. I would have been appreciative of his attempt at true candor, honesty, vulnerability, and personal clarity. I would have been impressed by his willingness to discuss these important issues in a way that went beyond mere soundbytes. But the thing is, he hasn't. We're writing these apologies for him.
Why? That's what I want to know. Why do we have to write his excuses and apologies?

He should be writing them himself. He set himself up as the Great Hope, and when he makes mistakes, he needs to be the one bending over backwards to clarify and apologize. Not us.

"Racism isn't a fact, it's a process": a "proicess" is not a "fact"? Meagan, you have much to learn. Stop worrying about those occasional catcalls and attempt some fundamental cognition. Don't worry, it's fun.

"That's why I'm willing to cut Reverend Jeremiah Wright really quite a lot of slack: because my perception of the level of racism in America is considerably affected by the fact that it mostly doesn't happen around me."-MM

I'm not in a mood to be very critical of Megan today, but I don't really understand the reasoning in that statement. Doesn't it amount to making excuses for hatred because the person full of it happens to be black?

Isn't the idea to get away from having one standard for blacks (like Reverend Wright) and another for whites (like David Duke)? Isn't bigotry wrong no matter the skin color of the bigot? Isn't this an example of what the great Senator Moynihan called "Defining Deviancy Down"?

Regardless, I agree with others above that the post as a whole is an interesting sort of stream of consciouness meditation on race.

"... I was recently told by a middle aged woman that it will bother me even more when it stops...."

I think your middle-aged woman friend probably knows whereof she speaks. Speaking as an average guy, I can't even imagine what a thrill it would be to have members of the opposite sex routinely complimenting me on my sexual desirability. Some folks just don't know when they are well-off.

A Korean-American columnist for my college newspaper held an open distaste for white students, who oppressed Asian students by assuming them to be polite and good at math. This vexed me, because I would gladly have upgraded to the Asian stereotype from my presumptive status as an incorrigible racist.

Really good post.

This was a great essay, and some pretty decent comments to boot.

I think Africans have a lot more self confidence and come from a whole different mental framework, so they navigate situations better in many respects. Then too, whites react to Africans differently than to some native born blacks.

In many cases there is always a battle between perceiving racism and real racism, and depending on the black person the radar might be off.

I remember being about 11 years old and with a group of friends after school, guys and girls, and talk turned to spin the bottle. Up until that point nobody in our neighborhood had ventured into girl/boy stuff so this was a new frontier.

I decided to opt out of the game, unsure if my white friends would allow the game to proceed in normal fashion with my participation. I imagined spinning the bottle and the girl responding, "I will NOT kiss him".

Before the game got started and not wanting to be alone, I convinced a chubby friend of mine, a nice Italian kid, to also not play, saying, "This is so stupid and we will only be the font of rumors around the school."

Then to my utter amazement, the whole group of kids started begging me to play, convinced that I would use my non-participatory status to actually be the rumor spreader.

So all my fears about racial rejection, in that instance, were in fact ridiculous, and that night I lay there in bed thinking of all the lips I could have kissed if I had not been so afraid.

I think a lot of American born blacks deal with situations like that. Sometimes the racism is real, sometimes it's perceived, and often, it just makes you act weird.

I can sort of see why MM would understand why Rev Wright would see things that way, and maybe like her I would cut him some slack as one of those incorigible oldsters (we all have them). I DO NOT understand why BOH, who has had a pretty priveleged life, would voluntarily associate himself with those views, as he did for 20 years. It exposes him and all his post-racial pablum as total BS, and I think that most "average white people" understand this. I might even be offended by his implicit rejection of his white heritage (you know, the folks who raised him), and take is as a racial insult.

Of course, I think he's just a cynical panderer who used Wright and his church for political advantage when convenient. I also think that Wright figured that out, hence his broadside against Obama - give Wright credit for consistency, unlike his former parishner.

Dear Edward Royce-- just because the women didn't look offended doesn't mean they aren't. Whenever I get a catcall, I try to ignore it, or smile vaguely (if they're in my face). I'm scared of being called an "uppity bitch" and starting a confrontation if I show, much less speak, my discomfort. I'm afraid of doing anything to make myself stick out more or prolonging the interaction. When I was younger, I toldf the men to fuck off, or shot them the bird; they'd take this as encouragement. Now I don't bother. I just scurry away and hope that was the end of it.

Dear anonymous male reader-- It's less thrilling for random members of the opposite sex to compliment your sexual desirability when that sex is bigger and stronger than you and some members have been known to act on their desire against your sex's wishes. Imagine walking down a city street and a big, tough-looking guy saying that you had a nice wallet. Hey, he's just complimenting your taste in accessories!

Dear Edward Royce-- just because the women didn't look offended doesn't mean they aren't. Whenever I get a catcall, I try to ignore it, or smile vaguely (if they're in my face). I'm scared of being called an "uppity bitch" and starting a confrontation if I show, much less speak, my discomfort. I'm afraid of doing anything to make myself stick out more or prolonging the interaction. When I was younger, I told the men to fuck off, or shot them the bird; they'd take this as encouragement. Now I don't bother. I just scurry away and hope that was the end of it.

Dear anonymous male reader-- It's less thrilling for random members of the opposite sex to compliment your sexual desirability when that sex is bigger and stronger than you and some members have been known to act on their desire against your sex's wishes. Imagine walking down a city street and a big, tough-looking guy saying that you had a nice wallet. Hey, he's just complimenting your taste in accessories!

I can't even imagine what a thrill it would be to have members of the opposite sex routinely complimenting me on my sexual desirability.

And undoubtedly many women would consider it a thrill to be automatically taken seriously in, say, the boardroom, rather than always being judged on the basis of their relative screwability.

We all want what we don't have.

Imagine walking down a city street and a big, tough-looking guy saying that you had a nice wallet.

I think it's more vivid to have him saying you have a nice ass.

Megan,
I don't always read your blog daily and I think I've only commented once or twice here, but as a black man, I found this post very honest and refreshing. Well done.

And to those Occam's Beard's comment...that strikes me as a decent distillation of the difference between Africans and African-American. It's in the mindset but also has some strong ties to the African-American experience of slavery (at least in my opinion).

Mike,

Thanks. The difference in mindset probably derives in large measure from experiencing slavery as slaves, as opposed to experiencing, if it all, as the slavers (as Africans in coastal tribes, especially in West Africa, did).

The good news is that the racial disharmony in the U.S. is remediable, in principle, since it's not race per se, but race convolved with culture and historical perspectives, wherein the problem lies.

I agree this is an excellent post.

Another point about the invisibility of catcalling to men is that men tend to fail to understand the problem with it. If couldn't walk around in public without women expressing the lurid sexual desires we inspire in them, we would be quite happy.

Similarly, though of a clearly different degree, it is likely that white people will miss the psychological significance of being followed around in a store or not given service due to the color of one's skin. Our reaction may be to the effect of "Well, it's not like I'm going to steal anything, so the fact that someone is watching me really doesn't matter." Obviously, it feels quite different if this happens to one all the time.

On the other hand, ignoring or adapting to the problem, if possible, may well make it go away. While there is something wrong in employees following blacks in stores, the poster who uses them as personal shopping assistants has very much the right outlook on how to solve the problem.

African-Americans often exhibit an attitude in their social interactions with white people that leads to miscommunication or conflict ... almost as if they are actively seeking proof that racism exists.

Whether or not that proverbial "chip on the shoulder" is warranted is another topic altogether. I think most blacks would say it is; most whites would say it isn't.

Either way, the constant claim of racism puts whites in a no-win situation.

Great post.

My insights into racism came nearly 50 years ago (1960) in DC while studying government at AU in a program for seniors. I had grown up in a town with few African Americans (less than 3%) and went to a college with fewer yet.

The Army assigned me to take my senior ROTC classes at Howard University. For four months, four mornings a week at 8:00 am, I trekked to Howard for mil science classes, and from 1-4 every Thursday, I drilled Howard's freshman and sophomore cadets. I was the only white cadet in the classes and the drill, and as such experienced many of the reactions described by Megan and some commenters. Some of the guys ignored me, some were excessively friendly, and some treated me like just another cadet. The third category was the only one that left me comfortable. That was my first lesson.

My second lesson was in the barber shop in the US Senate. After visiting a Senator, three of us went their to get a haircut. The barber there refused to cut the hair of our buddy, Ron Gault (later the husband of Charlayne Hunter Gault of PBS fame) because, he said, he didn't know how to cut, "negro hair". I had never encountered blatant racism before, and it was an intensely negative emotional experience -- made worse by the fact it was in the US Senate Office Building.

Fortunately, the problems encountered in my second lesson have been pretty much resolved, although those who experienced them are rightly resentful. The problems identified in my first lesson, sadly, have not been resolved as they are the product of human nature.

So, as long as David Duke had a bad experience with black people when he was young, perhaps being beaten up because of his race, then we should tolerate his current beliefs. Maybe have our kids baptized by him and listen to his lectures every Sunday?

Sorry. No sale.

This essay shouldn't get you in trouble at all. It's a thoughtful read, although I had trouble following a few of its arguments.

As for getting catcalls, yeah, appreciate them now - unlike racist epithets and stares, they're unlikely to be anything but appreciative toward you :)

And undoubtedly many women would consider it a thrill to be automatically taken seriously in, say, the boardroom, rather than always being judged on the basis of their relative screwability.

Automatically taken seriously? Obviously you've never been short, fat, or bald. You're also assuming that there aren't any other women in the boardroom, which is a pretty outdated attitude for these days.

Your essay was not just thoughtful, but generous. Thanks.

It's funny what people can be offended by. I work with someone who's married to a woman from another race, and he was complaining one day that people who learn that often compliment him on how good-looking his children must be. "I'm tired of it; it's such a stereotype!"

I've met his children. They're gorgeous.

vnjagvet:
The barber there refused to cut the hair of our buddy...because, he said, he didn't know how to cut, "negro hair". I had never encountered blatant racism before, and it was an intensely negative emotional experience..."

Maybe you're just telling the story wrong, but as you tell it there's no reason to reject the barber's explanation as insincere. Blacks do have a unique hair texture, and it's certainly plausible, at least to a non-barber like me, that cutting it might require a different technique than cutting a white person's hair.

vnjagvet:
The barber there refused to cut the hair of our buddy...because, he said, he didn't know how to cut, "negro hair". I had never encountered blatant racism before, and it was an intensely negative emotional experience..."

Maybe you're just telling the story wrong, but as you tell it there's no reason to reject the barber's explanation as insincere. Blacks do have a unique hair texture, and it's certainly plausible, at least to a non-barber like me, that cutting it might require a different technique than cutting a white person's hair.

I do think it's funny that, for all the fuming about Wright, there are still folks out there who want to paint Barry as a Muslim.

I also find the Wright stuff amusing, given that the Right has been apologizing and carrying water for the likes of Dobson, Falwell, Hagee, et al. for years. As someone who skews Libertarian and typically votes GOP, I've held my nose and put up with it. Now I'm told nutty preachers are a bad thing? Seems the same as being told 'States' Rights' are now a bad thing, when they meant everything to my GOP friends during the Clinton Administration. They also objected to being the world's cop in places like Bosnia and Somalia, as I recall...

So, I have to agree with vnjagvet: it's all just human nature. Tribalism is alive and well, whether it's race-based or political-party based. And, to Megan's original point, we can probably learn more about it from the outside looking in. And we'll definitely learn more about it by discussing it (with surprisingly few trolls chiming in so far).

Crap... I was distracted by the comments, so I forgot to make my original point: this post definitely isn't going to net Megan an Instalanche. The Glibertarian isn't going anywhere near this thread!

This is one of the best normative essays on race I've ever read. I think it's especially relevant to your post: http://www.fee.org/publications/the-freeman/article.asp?aid=4010

That was an outstandingly good post - not just perceptive, but as several commenters have already said, generous-spirited. It's a quality sadly lacking in most political discussions these days.

And are you "willing to cut Reverend Wright a lot of slack" for his antisemitism, too?

I wonder if you're also willing to cut Wright's buddy Louis Farrakhan a lot of slack.

I think this post suffers from some of the same problems as Matthew Yglesias's recent post noting that he was one of the few people who liked the Doug Liman flick "Go". Namely, WTF? Obama's speech on race was almost universally hailed as one of the greatest political speeches of recent decades. The exceptions were exclusively conservative. And the conservative critiques were not, for the most part, in good faith. So this:

And I saw Obama's speech as trying to bridge that divide--to say, as someone who had one foot in each community, "This is why the way they do things you don't like--not because they're different, but because they're very much like you." To be sure, he did it in a hamfisted way.

...is profoundly grating to me. Obama's speech was about as hamfisted as the "I Have a Dream" speech. A few hardened anti-Democratic conservatives managed to find tendentious ways to misconstrue what he said in a sneering fashion that was politically useful. I can't imagine why you would choose to play along with them.

The barber there refused to cut the hair of our buddy...because, he said, he didn't know how to cut, "negro hair".

I kind of agree this isn't necessarily racist -- this is a fraught interaction and maybe the barber made racist attitudes clear in the subtext, but when I was living in Africa there were plenty of barbers who didn't know how to cut straight hair, and I didn't take offense at that.

Maybe you're just telling the story wrong, but as you tell it there's no reason to reject the barber's explanation as insincere. Blacks do have a unique hair texture, and it's certainly plausible, at least to a non-barber like me, that cutting it might require a different technique than cutting a white person's hair.

Brandon:

I did not add the detail that all of us had pretty close crew cuts. Ron had a close cropped "military" cut. Barbers need little skill to execute such a haircut.

Obama's speech on race was almost universally hailed as one of the greatest political speeches of recent decades. The exceptions were exclusively conservative. And the conservative critiques were not, for the most part, in good faith.

Where to start? In essence, you're saying that everyone thought the speech was wonderful, except those who didn't.

And those who didn't, whose minds you of course are able to read, reached their conclusions through bad faith.

Sheesh.

No. I am saying 1. all critiques of Obama's speech were by conservatives, so Megan's point here:

Part of the problem is that both communities were outraged, and neither seems to have very well understood that his speech had offended the other as deeply as it had offended them.]

is wildly off. "Both" communities were not outraged; there was no "outrage" on the left or in the black community at Obama's speech. The only person in the black community who seems to have been "outraged" by it was Rev. Wright. There was, however, "outrage" by some conservative commentators who make their career out of being serially "outraged" at various non-outrageous things. Some conservatives were no doubt genuinely offended by Obama's speech, for reasons which are badly misplaced but not dishonest. But (2.) the "he threw his grandmother under the bus" crap emanated from on-air conservative partisans looking for ways to turn Obama's speech to their advantage. Megan's take on that section of the speech is correct. Anyone who thinks that noting that your grandmother has said some offensive stuff in her time constitutes a betrayal of said grandmother is just an asshole looking for ammunition; that is not a good-faith response.

In essence, you're saying that everyone thought the speech was wonderful, except those who didn't.

Yeah, sort of like I might say "everyone thinks Tom Brady is a good quarterback, except for those who don't." The signifying turn being that the former group is about ten thousand times bigger than the latter. You may be part of the latter group, but when you start out by writing "There is great controversy over whether or not Tom Brady is a good quarterback," well, that's not really true.

Megan,

Great post.

It's interesting to see that a few commenters above have alluded to the fact that African Americans are descended from slaves makes their attitudes different from that of African immigrants.

No doubt that's part of the story. However, we must remember that immigrants from Africa are generally a self-select group (like most voluntary immigrants usually are). They are more likely to be optimistic, better educated and self-confident, so maybe it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison here. While I don't have any hard numbers for the U.S., studies show that african immigrants (and their children) in the U.K. have higher levels of educational achievement than native-born British citizens, and are indistinguishable from any other high-achieving voluntary immigrant group. (see for example http://www.econ.ucl.ac.uk/cream/pages/CDP/CDP_10_06.pdf). So immigrants will be immigrants.

However, what is even more intriguing is this. Anecdotal evidence at least suggests that black immigrants from the Caribbeans, who did experience slavery and who are generally less educated than African immigrants, have different attitudes and are perceived differently from African-Americans. However, while West Indian immigrants are black and are descended from slaves, they do have the the benefit of living in majority black contries for generations.

IMHO, the attitudes and the adversarial posture of many African-Americans has arisen not only becuase they were slaves and minorities, but that even after slavery ended, they were the targets of explicit discriminatory social, cultural and political policies. These things will take some generations to unwind although the unwinding is going on as we speak.

Graeme

"I do think it's funny that, for all the fuming about Wright, there are still folks out there who want to paint Barry as a Muslim."

Actually the NYT pointed out that Obama was born a muslim.

NYT

Also it's common knowledge that Obama's stepfather was also a muslim. And that Obama was registered at his school as a muslim. And that Obama learned enough Arabic that he can do the Islamic call to prayer.

I did not add the detail that all of us had pretty close crew cuts.

Ah. Fair 'nuff.

On the ROTC at Howard stuff, that's pretty fascinating. I've just been reading a forthcoming book that describes the draft and basic training of a black guy in DC in 1942-3. The institutional and personal racism in the Armed Forces at that point is really incredible. Which, depending on how you want to look at it, could be seen as encouraging -- at least by 1960 there were black cadets who viewed the Armed Forces as a promising career, just 13 years after they were desegregated.

However, we must remember that immigrants from Africa are generally a self-select group (like most voluntary immigrants usually are). They are more likely to be optimistic, better educated and self-confident, so maybe it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison here.

This is true. But it's also true that race relations in most of Africa are, weirdly, free of a lot of the weird emotional and political fraughtness of race relations in the US. There is a refreshing bluntness and lack of taboo on most kinds of discussion. You don't realize how anxiety-wracked you are in the US in biracial social interactions until you go somewhere where that anxiety drops away. It gets down to the level of body language.

Anthony Appiah writes about this in "In My Father's House" -- the weird assumption on the part of white people that black people in Africa must also have all kinds of inferiority complexes and issues with white people and vice versa. Growing up in Ghana, he says, he basically didn't see many white people, and when he did it didn't occur to him that he should be on anything but an equal and sociable footing with them.

This obviously doesn't apply in South Africa, Zimbabwe and to some extent Kenya.

Yeah, sort of like I might say "everyone thinks Tom Brady is a good quarterback, except for those who don't." The signifying turn being that the former group is about ten thousand times bigger than the latter.

Begs the question. A classic example of the Pauline Kael syndrome.

On summer afternoons one of the more exciting things I did with my friends (all white), when we were in the 10 to 12 age bracket, was to go into department stores where inevitably, because of our age, the store detective would start to follow us. We would then split into different directions so that he couldn't follow all of us at the same time.

Of late, I am developing a prejudice against Afrians in America. On two separate occasions on a recent trip to New York City, they simply lied to me. In one case I was asking for directions to the rest room in a building, the African doorman told me, with a long convoluted story, that there wasn't one. I found it. On another occasion I wasn't sure if the entrance to Grand Central from the 44th(?) St side openned a 6:00 or 6:30, when I asked the African doorman he lied and told me 8:00.

I knew an American black giirl who told me she was recruited by a Nigerian to steal credit card numbers at a hotel (She worked at check in at a Renissance). His recruting pitch was something like: "You can't possibly like white people."

Given that Nigerian's are notorious for running different email and identity scams (I will cite 60 Minutes here as reference), I find it particualrly curious that more and more Africans are running the doorman and security functions in NYC buildings. Maybe 95% of them are honest, which means 5% are not, which means night time access to an awful lot of buldings and information.

"This obviously doesn't apply in South Africa, Zimbabwe and to some extent Kenya."

Why Zimbabwe?

Because it used to be Rhodesia? Seriously hasn't Robert Mugabe done more, and worse, citizens of Zimbabwe than the previous white government?

Of late, I am developing a prejudice against Afrians in America. - Sidney

Everybody needs a hobby.

"IMHO, the attitudes and the adversarial posture of many African-Americans has arisen not only becuase they were slaves and minorities, but that even after slavery ended, they were the targets of explicit discriminatory social, cultural and political policies. These things will take some generations to unwind although the unwinding is going on as we speak."

Then why is it different with Asians?

Quite a few Asians were enslaved during the same time frame when African-Americans were slaves. The various laws in California, as an example, where "Chinese" couldn't bear witness against a white in any court is just one aspect of this. Many Asians died from murder, robbery, enslavement, forced prostitution, etc etc etc. Many whites during the California Gold Rush simply attacked Asians working their claims because it was easier and very unlikely to be punished.

Then there's the Chinese Exclusion Act which forbid Asians from becoming citizens until it was repealed in *1943*. And even then the quota was 103 per year. This last wasn't changed until 1965!

Is there anybody who would argue that Asians haven't been discriminated against? Consider Berkeley College where a specific policy of holding Asian student to a specific percentage of the student body was in place for many years. An Asian student needed at minimum an SAT above 1400 to even be considered, and likely wouldn't make th cut. This is during a period where African-American students were being admitted to this same school with a 700 SAT.

...

The list goes on and on. There has been very long history of overt and covert racism against Asians. Whether it's pejoratives such as "chink", "gook" or "jap". Whether it was barely concealed anger by WWII, Korean War or Vietnam War veterans. Even children emulating their elders on every December 7th. Asians have undergone just as much discrimination and racism in America as African-Americans. And in many cases now have to contend with racism *from* African-Americans.

So. Why is the outcome different?

Honestly my opinion is: less whining.

That's worth listening to even if it doesn't always come out quite right.

OK. What if it has come out more right than anything else he has said?

"Honestly my opinion is: less whining."

Let me clarify.

I say that because I'm Asian and grew up in the USA. And every time my ethnicity became an "issue" and I complained about it to my mother, also Asian, I'd get smacked and told basically to deal with it. And the same with my, also Asian, aunts. And complaining about how unfair it all was resulted in tougher treatment.

brooksfoe

"But (2.) the "he threw his grandmother under the bus" crap emanated from on-air conservative partisans looking for ways to turn Obama's speech to their advantage. Megan's take on that section of the speech is correct. Anyone who thinks that noting that your grandmother has said some offensive stuff in her time constitutes a betrayal of said grandmother is just an asshole looking for ammunition; that is not a good-faith response."

Sorry but that's wrong. Obama *did* throw his grandmother under the bus and whitewashing, or trying to, doesn't cut it.

As stated by Obama his white grandmother was the sole breadwinner for the family. Neither Obama, still a child, nor the grandfather worked. Only the grandmother worked.

As stated by Obama his grandmother encountered an aggressive panhandler who frightened her because she was afraid the panhandler would attack her. This is not unknown and is a regular concern in cities like San Fransisco where panhandler, and bums, are encouraged.

Now Obama's grandfather evidently can't be bothered to drive his wife into work the next day and then runs through several excuses in order to avoid having to actually do something. The excuse he finally rests upon is that his wife, Obama's grandmother, is a racist and a bigot.

A. this is precisely the same argument used by liberals and Obama when they want to try and shut down a debate. They cry "racist" and/or "bigot".

B. Obama casts away every single act of love by his grandmother and condemns her entirely on the word of his worthless grandfather.

IMO Obama stands condemned by his own words. And yes he did throw his grandmother, "a typical white person", under the bus.

"Obama's speech on race was almost universally hailed as one of the greatest political speeches of recent decades. The exceptions were exclusively conservative. And the conservative critiques were not, for the most part, in good faith."-brooksfoe

I guess I'm in bad faith, with Occam. Anyway I would agree that the speech was very cleverly crafted and beautifully delivered, so if those are the criteria then it was indeed a very good speech. From the standpoint of logic it was not quite so good. The chief purpose of the speech was to address the Wright problem that was damaging Obama's campaign so the central passage was this:

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother...

That struck me as strange reasoning as soon as I had heard it. You don't choose your race. You don't choose your grandmother. You do choose your church and your pastor, so there just isn't any analogy there. More importantly, though, not long after that speech--whose central argument was that Obama could not disown Reverend Wright--Obama essentially disowned Reverend Wright:

His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church. They certainly don't portray accurately my values and beliefs. And if Reverend Wright thinks that that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well. And based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought either.

So, from a Socratic, rational standpoint, the original speech doesn't measure up. I much prefer the statement he made at his press conference. It lacked the "nuance" that many would-be intellectuals find alluring, but all too often nuance is just a cover for vacillation and illogic.

rwe, I think the difference between Obama's response to the initial attacks on Wright's speeches in his own church, and his response to Wright's self-promotional blitz in April, has an immense amount to do with who Wright was addressing on those different occasions. If you want to take what I'm saying as so much whining and special pleading, then you can do so, but to me it seems simply common sense that the way one speaks to different audiences is affected by the audiences; you don't talk to your boss the same way you talk to your sister, and so on. Things it's acceptable to say to your sister are unacceptable to say to your boss.

For me this has a lot to do with the Bakhtinian concept of "dialog", but you can take that or leave it.

What we are asking here is: how much leeway should we give to Obama to give to Wright? How should we judge Obama's level of harshness in judging Wright? It seems clear to me that Obama felt, and I would agree, that ways of speaking which were forgivable eccentricities in the context of a sermon to an all-black church became simply egotistical provocation when delivered to the National Press Club. For Wright to talk nonsense in his church about the CIA-HIV connection was the kind of thing that deserves to be sharply rebutted, but given that the guy has been a very powerful positive anti-poverty community crusader in Chicago for decades, it doesn't mean you ought to cut him off. It would be, as Obama said, like rejecting the whole black community, since Wright's views on questions like these, however misguided, are widely shared there. But for him to deliberately say the same thing, after months of media brouhaha, at a national mainstream mass-media event to a white audience as well -- that was just deliberate, self-absorbed, self-defeating egotism with very damaging consequences for black-white relations as a whole. At that point, the guy should be rebuked; and the black community as a whole, which embraced Obama's speech on this, largely rebuked Wright for his grandstanding.

The black-white divide in the US is a situation where different discursive communities have very different experiences and very different ways of talking about things. It is extremely hard to speak to both of those two audiences in the same voice, and to mean what you say. Barack Obama manages to do this. It is the skill of a great community organizer and a great politician. His initial speech on race in mid-March was a description of why it's so hard to speak at the same time to two divided communities without having one or both either attack you or accuse you of dishonesty. It angers me to see people attack Obama for having made that speech because it seems to me to reject the possibility of that risky opening gambit in honest racial discussion; it is like kneecapping the guy who tries to build a bridge between the two warring camps, it sends a message that no such dialog will be tolerated.

Honestly my opinion is: less whining. - Royce

Judging by your posts, I see no particular shortage of whining.

Let's say I were to ask why it is that Asian-Americans are such miserable failures in American culture, compared to African-Americans: there are, after all, no significant Asian-American contributions to the American musical tradition, no great Asian-American writers on a level with James Baldwin, and no Asian-American actors who come even close to the artistry and stardom of probably 50 African-American celebrities. This, despite the fact that (as you point out) Asian-Americans have experienced the same kinds of oppression and group solidarity in their history as African-Americans, the experiences that are often seen as the wellspring of black or Jewish creativity.

And then let's say I were to hypothesize that part of the reason why Asian-Americans are so third-rate in cultural achievement, compared to African-Americans, is their highly conformist and shame-based culture, in which investigating the experience of suffering, even for artistic or humorous purposes, is seen as an admission of inadequacy. (In sharp contrast to black or Jewish culture, which celebrate the exploration of suffering and have thus produced a disproportionate share of great American culture.) This leads to a certain superficiality and lack of innovation in Asian-American culture. It's particularly striking given the great creative energy and dynamism of Chinese and Japanese culture -- especially literature and art -- in the past 20 years that Asian-American culture is so hidebound and third-rate.

Now, is what I just wrote racist? Does it feel racist to you? It feels racist to me. It also feels like pretty much exactly the same kind of offensive speculation you engaged in above regarding the black community.

Nobody has commented on that lovely quote from C.S. Lewis. It's lovely, I would say, because he is his own friend, warts and all; he cuts himself some slack about the regrettable things he does, on that basis-- as most of us do for our friends. One of the extremely sad things about our society is that so few of us have friends of another race, so our ideas about race are based on encounters with total strangers. Friendship takes time, and care, and persistence, and loyalty, and humility. Maybe those are not really American values. But they could be.

Sidney, I'll call bullshit.
There are some 140 million Nigerians. 5% of them are dishonest means there are 7 million odd who are likely to commit an email and identity scam.
1. I doubt that the number of such scams is in the millions.
2. Because of multiple scams by individuals, the number of scammers is much lower than the number of scams.
Your choice of 95% honesty is way too low. The US has less than 1% of it's population in jail, btw.

Not nearly all Africans or even Nigerians who end up in the US work as doormen. Most come here for college. New York's buildings are safe; pick a new hobby.

Life is hard enough with people joking about this. It's unfortunate you're serious.

"It seems clear to me that Obama felt, and I would agree, that ways of speaking which were forgivable eccentricities in the context of a sermon to an all-black church became simply egotistical provocation when delivered to the National Press Club."-brooksfoe

Brooksfoe, it seems to me as though you're saying: 'It's okay to spew poison in a black church, just not at the National Press Club.' I don't consider stuff like "God damn America" the "USKKKofA", the AIDS stuff, etc... merely eccentric. I think that stuff is toxic.

Yes, I admit that Wright had a lot of good programs running at his church, but that doesn't excuse him. He was not just like Obama's grandmother, expressing somewhat bigoted views in private. He was in a position of authority in which he could influence a lot of young people and fill their heads with the same garbage that was in his (like his bizarre theories about how black kids were made for hip hop and not for math). That stuff is quite destructive for society generally, and especially for the young blacks who grow up believing it.

Obama should at the very least have spoken to Wright and objected to the man's most outrageous views a long time ago. But, regardless, he dissociated himself unequivocally at his press conference (after a false start in what you call a masterpiece of oratory). That's what I wanted him to do, so I'm willing to let the matter drop. I have lots of objections to Obama, but his past association with Wright is not high on the list--not any more.

Again, though, as a philosophical matter, the speech was not a good one precisely because it shirked the fundamental responsibility to stop making excuses for Wright and condemn his appalling views unequivocally. This was much better:

When he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS; when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century; when he equates the United States' wartime efforts with terrorism, then there are no excuses. They offend me, they rightly offend all Americans, and they should be denounced. And that's what I’m doing very clearly and unequivocally here today.


It is antithetical to our campaign, it is antithetical to what I am about, it is not what I think America stands for... when I say I find these comments appalling, I mean it. It contradicts everything that I’m about and who I am. And anybody who has worked with me, who knows my life, who has read my books, who has seen what this campaign's about, I think will understand that it is completely opposed to what I stand for and where I want to take this country.

Eh. If your parents sent you to the regular local P.S. and you went to an all-black and Latino school, you wouldn't be so gullible for Obama's pabulum on race.

RE: Dan's comments: "Might the fact that black people are