Charles Giacommetti sent me the following email:
So one of your sycophants ... didn't like what I was saying, so he Googled my name and posted the name, address, and phone number of a different Charles Giacometti.http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/07/iphone_relief.php#comment-2473930
Nice commenters you have there. All class.
To which I responded, "I'll delete it, but given that you've been harassing people to use their real names, you could hardly complain if it had been your actual information."
Charles fired back:
I am not harassing. I am addressing people directly, and challenging them to not be cowardly. Do you really not understand that the real harassment here would be if your little brown shirts started calling this poor stranger? I would not be surprised if they already have.If it had been my real information, and I had been harassed, I would most certainly hold you and The Atlantic culpable.
Please direct me to your superiors at the Atlantic so that I can let them know you endorse this kind of harassment. I would like both email addresses and direct phone numbers please.
You may consider them notified.
Indeed, I hope that none of you called this fellow, or in any other way bothered him. I do not encourage offline harassing of web commenters, whatever the provocation. This is one of the reasons that I welcome commenters who use handles; on this blog, it's the content of the comments that is important. The proper punishment for trolls is the silent derision of anyone who reads them, and of course, the fact that they are the kind of people who become internet trolls. If you did call this fellow before I took down his name and number, I would appreciate an anonymous tip off on this thread so that I can contact him and apologize for the inconvenience.
Please do not stalk the trolls. Also, do not talk to them. This seems like as good a time as any to remind readers that your attention--no matter how richly provoked you feel--merely encourages them to further heights. Your tears of just rage are sweet, sweet nectar to comment trolls. Presumably, they engage in this behavior because they feel that no one listens to them. Only you can help make this a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Perhaps no one else will care, but your title needs work. Try Quis vexabit ipsos vexatores? The verb vexare is much stronger than the English derivative 'vex'. It means 'attack constantly, harry; ravage, devastate; afflict, trouble, upset; persecute, inveigh against, disturb', and a vexator is 'one who harasses, ravages, etc.', either verbally or physically. Sounds like a reasonable equivalent of 'stalker' or 'troll'.
By the way, like many bloggers, I've been treated far worse than the other Charles Giacometti. For instance, not content with the usual vile insults, someone on a well-known website where I often comment figured out my real name and has more than once issued an invitation in my name to a 'coming-out party' with my exact address helpfully appended. (I'm not gay, and very glad my telephone number is unlisted.) Of course, he hides behind a pseudonym himself, or rather several, since the site-owner bans him when he does that, but he keeps coming back. I've also had what was supposed to be my address and telephone number posted on a (then) well-known left-wing website with a strong hint to call up and harass me. It was actually my elderly parents' house, and no one ever called them. Probably no one will call the other Charles G. -- not that that excuses the inept creep who posted his information.
Looking at the replay, I found it ironic that the 'sycophant' was one of the first in the thread to basically tell you wtf, and that he(she?) was no longer taking you seriously.
Of course, the silly thing about demanding that people use "real" names instead of handles is that there's no real way to verify them anyway.
For instance, "Lawrence Mosley" sounds like a real name, but it's a fake I made on fakenamegenerator.com
No doubt "Charles Giacommetti" finds me much more credible now that I have a fake real name.
For those of us who don't know latin, what the heck does the title mean? I have a bit more of an idea based on the first commenter, but a direct translation would be appreciated.
It's better Latin that Megan's own attempt, but both mean 'who will stalk the stalkers?' ('harass the harassers' or 'troll the trollers'), a variation on Juvenal's Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? -- 'who will guard the guardians?'. Don't economists have a name for the problem?
Amo lengua Roma. However even that might not be translated right; so the occasional footnote with verb tense and hints to make it 'obvious' might be a thrill to your humble reader.
Wow, that Fake Name Generator site is awesome. I'm now Chikao Saikawa of Reykjavík, Iceland.
Of course, you have only his word that it's the wrong Charles Giacometti. And having seen his work on other blog comment sections, I wouldn't trust him, except to be obnoxious and partisan.
Amo linguam Latinam, or amo linguam Romanam, I think, would be more correct. However, I've not taken Latin since 1992, so don't be too sure to take my word on it.
Sven: I agree. ROFLMAO
So here's the deal, kids.
The Internet is an outrage-seeker's paradise. It's also pretty fertile ground for bullies, all the more because it takes a mountain of paperwork (often with a subpoena sitting at the top) to get at a determined perp.
Things to remember:
Trolls are bullies, and bullies are cowards. No ifs, no buts, no maybes.
You can't engage a troll by trying to talk them out of their neurosis. Self-images (e.g., of being a weakling) can only be mended by their beholders.
You can't engage a troll by being assertive. It challenges them to prove themselves right - in other words, it escalates things.
You can't engage a troll by counter-attacking. Do that, and they'll instantly become the aggrieved party (ZOMFG he hurt my feelings, the bastard, powiddleme). Why turn yourself into a bad guy for no good reason?
That's why you don't feed trolls. As they say, don't wrestle with pigs - all you get is dirty, and sometimes the pig wins.
And those too thin-skinned to deal with trolls should get referred to one of the zillion echo chambers on the Web. You'll be happier there, trust me.
I am sorry Megan for troll feeding (and also for secret silent envy of your new phone and other unspeakable thoughts).
I wish I had trolls on my own blog. My aunt started a "knitting" blog on Wordpress and has something like 8,000 views and I've been around longer than her and have 1/8th of that.
You don't want to hit a certain stage in your life and realize that not only are you unemployed, but that you are more boring than knitting.
Yes, I rather wish someone cared about me enough to troll my humble blog, or at least to trash my Wikipedia listing with lies.
Megan wrote: ...you could hardly complain if it had been your actual information.
Probably violates the Atlantic's Terms of Service aggrement. Bullet No. 6 under Acceptable Use. I assume The Atlantic takes it's TOS seriously.
Charles wrote: I would like both email addresses and direct phone numbers please.
Megan responded: You may consider them notified.
He didn't ask you to notify them he asked for their email addresses and phone numbers. Probably a good idea to tell someone in management but he didn't ask you to tell them.
When customers get pissed off you don't piss them off more. He can find the email addresses and phone numbers quite easily. If he doesn't choose to use the web form on the Atlantic's contact page all that information can be found either in the magazine itself or in a telephone directory. All sorts of goodies on the masthead page too. I'm sure the people in advertising will love it when he calls and asks them for email addresses and phone numbers. If he decides to tell them about his problem, I'm sure whoever answers the phone is going to love documenting his call and forwarding it onto management.
After decades of customer service experience I find that when you deal with a snarky uncooperative employee of a company the best bet is to write a letter. Besides the initial problem he can now also add that he asked for contact information and it wasn't given to him. Usually best to send it certified mail, and return receipt requested, attention of the high mucky muck in charge. Responding to letters costs lots of money compared to telephone or email inquires. Mangement just loves spending time and money...
I am betting any high muckety mucks will ignore the entire matter two seconds after laughing over it.
Adirondacker:
How is 'Charles Giacometti' (which may or may not be his real name) a "customer"? He paid the same subscription fee the rest of us pay to read this blog: zero. If he doesn't feel that he's getting his money's worth, it will cost him nothing and gain him something (time) to take his eyeballs elsewhere.
"Syncophants", "cowards", "28 percenters" and (everybody's favourite) "brown shirts". Chuck needs some serious therapy, methinks.
The point I made on the other comment was this: using your "real name" isn't any more brave or impressive than using a pseudonym. Nobody cares. It certainly doesn't add any juice to one's argument.
Anyway, my real fake name and address is now:
Bailey A. Barton
1822 11th Ave
Calgary, AB T2P 1M6
Keep those cards and letters coming, Chuck.
Adirondacker, my bosses are well aware that my comments section is infested with crazy people who manufacture grievances. So is advertising. Moreover, my supervisors are on the masthead--it's not like I'm working a call center. My bosses are the managing editor and the editor in chief of the magazine. As I told Charles, in a private email I didn't post.
Trolls are not valued customers; they are not customers at all. They do not buy anything; rather, they stop by to complain about the inadequacy of the free ice cream. Meanwhile, they destroy comment threads and drive away far more eyeballs than they bring. Think of me less as a call center operator and more as a small business owner. . . some customers you just don't want. I will be quite pleased if our native trolls never read me again.
But more realistically, I am not running a small business. A journalist's job is to tell it like they see it, which is why journalists don't get in trouble for tangling with crazy letter writers unless the exchanges really get obscene. What is Charles going to do--get onlne and tell all of his friends I was snarky? Do you think it's likely that that post net gained or lost readers for the site? Given that my number one complaint in emails is the troll problem, I'm betting on a gain.
I work really rather hard not to be rude to the people here who are appallingly uncivil and personal, because that is how I was raised. But my job description does not include smiling sweetly at people who call me a sociopathic idiot and saying "I'm sure you're quite right, sir". Moreover, a decent business doesn't ask its employees to put up with unrelenting personal attacks.
You should see the hate e-mail I have received from some of Kevin Drum's mentally unbalanced readers. I have gotten literally hundreds of e-mails over the last 4 years describing how I should be sexually abused and/or then hideously murdered. It certainly made me question my decision to use my real name and e-mail address when commenting.
Adirondacker, only a coward posts comments without leaving his/her full name, address, and home phone number, as well as social security, bank account, and routing numbers.
Coward.
If I had nothing to lose by using my real name, I would. But I live in a very closed-minded ultra liberal community, and both my job and my wife's jobs would suffer if my libertarian leanings were linked to me.
There is a large diversity of opinion in my town, all the way from the Greens on the far left to the Democrats on the far right.
So my (to me) centrist leanings put me in the hated ultra far right category.
So if Charles wants to call me a coward for using a pseudoblogonym, that's fine with me--I know better.
I use my real name online because I can't think of any reason not to, and because it keeps me from being nastier than I should be. But I understand why a lot of folks don't feel comfortable with it.
I see a difference between asking folks to use their real names and making their addresses and phone numbers public, but I suppose anyone who wanted to know where I live could find out in a matter of seconds. Feel free to stop by; we have a great coffee place on the next block.
yeesh, start hitting the delete button. I rarely wander into the commments now, I used to but they have deterioated. One of the reasons I think you became such a successful blogger, and the main reason I came back night after night during the Assymetrical days were the intelligent commment threads. Your writing, above almost any blogger I can think of, inspired good discussions.
I was part of a large group that was more of a bulletion board discussion, but I found that if you don't get rid of the losers promptly, you lose the winners too.
It's like graffiti, paint over it before anyone can see it and it stops happening.
"Trolls are not valued customers; they are not customers at all. They do not buy anything; rather, they stop by to complain about the inadequacy of the free ice cream. "
I don't know about that. Has anyone done a marketing survey on trolls? Maybe nothing sparks the consumerist inside us all like a really nasty, inflamatory rant. Perhaps you could advertise spittle-wipes for cleaning monitors and keyboards to profit from the troll demographic.
Oh, just to keep things on the up-and-up, I am not really Eric Njorl, but rather Thorvald Nlodvisson, the son of Gudleif, half brother of Thorgier, the priest of Ljosa water, who took to wife Thurunn, the mother of Thorkel Braggart, the slayer of Cudround the powerful, who knew Howal, son of Geernon, son of Erik from Valdalesc, son of Arval Gristlebeard, son of Harken, who killed Bjortguaard in Sochnadale in Norway over Cudreed, daughter of Thorkel Long, the son of Kettle-Trout, the half son of Harviyoun Half-troll, father of Ingbare the Brave, who with Isenbert of Gottenberg the daughter of Hangbard the Fierce ...
Send complaints to 29 Kingston Road, North MAlden, Surrey.
I, too, have a confession. I'm not really Epstein's mother. I have no idea where that little sweathog came from.
But don't tell him. He doesn't know he's adopted.