My companion, a friend from my past life as an IT professional who is so normal that he doesn't even have a blog, just asked "So what happens if Obama gets assassinated?"
Given the parallels between his campaign and Bobby Kennedy's, that's been the topic of some discussion around me in the past. The consensus is that Biden gets the top slot, but of course, by some logic it should be Hillary. Anyone actually know the answer?
« Convention liveblogging: prelude | Main | Lights . . . camera . . . . » Grim pub quiz28 Aug 2008 09:54 pm Comments (33)
Good question. Don't know the real answer. I can imagine though that would be one helluva catfight in the DNC and certainly the "sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits" would be armed to the teeth! 
Fuck you. Are you so drunk already that you've lost every last shred of decency? This is by far the ugliest, most brain dead post I've ever seen on the Atlantic site. Fuck you, again.
Since it is now after the convention, the DNC would choose a nominee to fill the Democrats' ballot spots. If he is assasinated after the election (and presuming he won) but before the EC votes, the democratic electors could vote for someone else besides Obama to be president. If it is after the EC votes, but before it is certified, Congress can refuse to certify it, and the House would pick a president with each state's delegation having one vote. If it is after certification but before inauguration, Biden would be inaugurated as VP, then immediately inaugurated as President.
Ignoring the trolls... It would have to be Biden. Obama's name would remain on the ballot, and when he couldn't be sworn in it would fall to the VP elect. That's my guess, at least.
Christ, are you off to an awful start.
A bit tasteless, Megan. And lamp, get a grip.
I guess this post will get Megan stuck on the no-fly list. She's at least as dangerous as Cat Stevens.
I'm afraid I don't see why you think it's tasteless. Surely it's important to know who would be the presidential candidate if Obama were shot or McCain died of a heart attack? It's not as if I were expressing hope that such a thing would happen. But given the age of McCain, and the sad American history of political assassination of black leaders and charismatic democratic presidential candidates, it's hardly idly amusing speculation.
It would only be classless if it hasn't actually...you know...happened before. And in light of the trio of scumbag white cracker meth heads who seemed to be coming into down as a sort of dumb and dumber hit squad to do just that... I'm voting for Obama, I've donated time and money to his campaign and an attempt on his life is something that I think is in the back of everyone's mind. A simple party procedural question does not seem impertinent - to me anyway but I guess I am thicker skinned than most folks. P.S. - Meghan may very well already be drunk. Can't say.
Hey, Mario, people who point out that McArdle may be in way over her head or that she just embarassed herself and the Atlantic aren't "trolls" -- they're adults. Try to deal with that, syncophant.
Hey, Mario, people who point out that McArdle may be in way over her head or that she just embarassed herself and the Atlantic aren't "trolls" -- they're adults. Try to deal with that, syncophant.
It's not at all brain dead. Emotionally insensitive, fine, but a logically valid question. I've been wondering the same thing. It seems to me that Obama is aware of the dangers but is most concerned about what happens post-election. Biden would not be a good choice for the top of the ticket. He's not that likeable, which is why he's not the presidential nominee. But he's very presidential in the sense that if the worst happens he can take over and get the job done better than anyone who was on Obama's short list. Obama knows to look past the near-term, folks. He didn't pick Joe as an "event" that would give him a bounce in the polls. This is someone he wants to work with, someone well suited to the VP's job description: taking over if the worst happens.
I'm no arbiter of taste, but I guess what rubbed me wrong was the flippant title and somewhat ironic presentation. It IS an important question, but not one I'm comfortable offering up with a tee-hee.
Considering that the DNC has already set the presdent that if the filed canadate drops dead (and folks, probably where the real question came from) then they are allowed to fill in with someone after the deadline (post convention in this case). So the odds are you'll see Hillary on the ticket. Biden doesn't have the backing within the Party to bid for Pres. all by himself. If he fights it for more then a day then you're looking at spliting the vote ... as has happened before. And everyone? Remember there has been a large fraction of the populance that have stated that they didn't want to vote for Obama because they don't want to get him killed. But you can put anything in that sentence; Stroke, DRT Heartattack (think Tim Russet), Undetected/Undetectable aurism blowout, etc. So drop the knee jerks.
heedless says: "I'm no arbiter of taste, but I guess what rubbed me wrong was the flippant title and somewhat ironic presentation. It IS an important question, but not one I'm comfortable offering up with a tee-hee." I haven't agreed with heedless much but I do on this one. Of course Sullivan linked to some whacked-out wingnut bastard who claims that "the left" WANTS Obama to be assassinated. The nutjobs on the right are legion.
Megan does not understand what a primary election is, that's why she's been so hung up on who runs once Obama's killed. Megan thinks there is som esort f federal election law that says, Whoover wins the primaries becomes the national candidate for president. A lot of ignorant people think that way. But primary elections are creatures of th state. The states pay for these things and condicut them and monitor them because they want to. Teh idea is to avoid the smoke-filled room days of yore when the poeople had no input into who the presdiential candidate would be. Even today, some states (like Iwoa) don't have primary election, just caususes where the party faithful meet. Okay, to answer confuced Megan's question, if Obama got killed, it would a) first be up to the Democratic party officiels (trhe some-filled room guys) to decide who they want to ru. But then b) there would be state by state problems with how woul dbe on the ballot (because each state has different rules prohibiting last-minute ballot changes).
A reminder to everyone who is going to comment after me: when Megan is talking about not feeding the trolls, she means comments like several of the above. Please, observe, and the do the opposite. Water the ents, don't feed the trolls.
and the sad American history of political assassination of black leaders Other than Martin Luther King, Jr., who might you have in mind? (Malcolm X had a following only among a small sect and was killed as a consequence of an intramural dispute with Elijah Muhammed - more a mob hit than an assassination as the term is colloquially understood).
Artie quotes and writes: "and the sad American history of political assassination of black leaders" Other than Martin Luther King, Jr., who might you have in mind? (Malcolm X had a following only among a small sect and was killed as a consequence of an intramural dispute with Elijah Muhammed - more a mob hit than an assassination as the term is colloquially understood). " There's Medgar Evers, but then a wingnut crank couldn't be expected to care about that. There are others, but again, wingnuts don't care.
kay, to answer confuced Megan's question, if Obama got killed, it would a) first be up to the Democratic party officiels (trhe some-filled room guys) to decide who they want to ru. But then b) there would be state by state problems with how woul dbe on the ballot (because each state has different rules prohibiting last-minute ballot changes). I believe it would have to occur quite late in the campaign for this to be a practical problem, bar here and there. Sargent Shriver was substituted for Thomas Eagleton in 1972 (fairly seemlessly, as I recall) and George Wallace, John Anderson, and Ross Perot circulated their petitions with dummy Vice Presidential candidates for which their personal selections were substituted according to state laws.
Another grim pub quiz question. What if its one of your crazy conservative readers that pulls the trigger?
It would only be classless if it hasn't actually...you know...happened before. One of our earlier presidents expired of gastroenteritis after eating a bowl of iced cherries. Let's clean the cherries outside of the White House refrigerator. Clear out any shellfish too, as ptomaine from said source did in Warren Harding. Someone with an intimate knowledge of the history of presidential politics might wish to instruct us, but IIRC, the only notables ever subject to bullets while campaigning for President were Robert Kennedy and George Wallace. It was not until 1968 that Secret Service agents were assigned to presidential candidates. They were not needed earlier. Some years ago, I saw a magazine article on the subject of security details surrounding cabinet secretaries, with the most detailed description devoted the swarm around Mr. Clinton's secretary of agriculture. It was noted that three members of Mr. Clinton's cabinet had refused details. Among these troopers was Donna Shalala. Here in New York, Eliot Spitzer entered office and elected to reduce the quantum of state police officers assigned to protect the Governor from the 200 favored by his predecessor to a mere 150. There is now discussion of returning it to the former level, with the figuring being that more comprehensive security would have been protectively inhibiting for Mr. Spitzer (and Mr. Paterson, too). As recently as 1977, the number of guards posted outside the residence of Israel's Prime Minister amounted to...one. Richard Nixon voluntarily dispensed with his Secret Service crew ca. 1988; unless I am misinformed, Lady Bird Johnson retained hers to the end. It is often not physical safety those in the dignitary protection biz are protecting.
This doesn't strike me as a question beyond the pale. One reason Florida's election in 2000 generated as much bad blood as it did was because no one understood the rules before the crisis and afterward it just seemed to many as though those in power were making it up as they went along. It is far better to discuss the situation when it is only a hypothetical then to try to deal with it seriously and justly only when it is necessary to do so.
Artie Deco says: "Someone with an intimate knowledge of the history of presidential politics might wish to instruct us, but IIRC, the only notables ever subject to bullets while campaigning for President were Robert Kennedy and George Wallace. It was not until 1968 that Secret Service agents were assigned to presidential candidates. They were not needed earlier." There was an attempt on Teddy Roosevelt's life in 1912, when he was running as a 3rd party candidate. I'd look into it further, but once again Artie is revealed as a fraud in the facts department. What a SHOCK.
If a party's candidate dies between now and the popular election in November, the national committee of that party will probably select an alternate after a private meeting. Who they will select is an open question. However, the national committee does not have ballot access, the state organizations do. Depending on nomination deadlines, the state organizations may be able to change the name on the ballot, or they might not. Whether all the state organizations change the name to the same candidate as the national committee chooses is up to them. It's possible, albeit not probable, that we could see a different name on all fifty-one relevant ballots. But that wouldn't have too much effect, in itself, since we don't elect Presidents, we elect electors. No matter whose name is on the state's ballot, the national committee for the party will try to get all the electors for that party to rally around a single candidate. Of course, if the party has less than 270 electors elected, it wouldn't matter very much. You might see state legislatures trying to bind the electors' choices, or select replacement slates; laws doing either are unlikely to be upheld by the federal courts. If the candidate dies between the November election and the December vote, you'd see the same effort by the national party to get all the electors to vote for the same candidate as above. If the candidate dies between the casting of the electoral votes and the counting of the votes by Congress . . . nobody knows. Basically, the Supreme Court would have to decide if someone is President elect or Vice President elect when the electoral votes are cast, or only after Congress has counted the votes and certified the result. If they are immediately after the votes are cast, then under the 20th the VP elect becomes President. If not . . . well, we get a big fight in Congress over counting the votes.
Megan, This is a very interesting question. I don't think it very likely we will see it answered though. When RFK was assisinated, he was in the leed but was not yet the Democratic nominee. Now that Sen. Obama has the nomination I presume he has pretty heavy secret service protection. My guess as to what would happen is a deal: Biden stays on as VP and supports Clinton at the top of the ticket. dbp
Obama better hope it's Biden or that Hillary doesn't read this blog. Crazy it's the republicans giving us a real shot at a female prez. McCain already looks like all the notorious "after" pictures typically shown to demonstrate the toll of the presidency. I'd almost vote for him just to see what he looks like if he does make it through a term.
There's Medgar Evers, but then a wingnut crank couldn't be expected to care about that. I think there were about twenty political killings in the Southern United States between 1954 and 1972, most of quite obscure figures like James Reeb. Medgar Evers was on the field staff of the NAACP and had a certain profile within a circumscribed local area in Mississippi, so was somewhat less obscure.
Were McCain to suffer a major heart attack tomorrow, you can bet your sweet bippy that there will be 4 challenge lawsuits filed by various GOP also-rans before his body makes it to the ME's office. At least if it happened to Obama, there would be only one big fat one with the word "Hillary" stenciled on the side that arrives with a singing choir led by Melissa McEwan. If something happens to the B-man, her wide-spread "cry for unity" won't apply anymore. He's gone. She's not. Damn the torpedo, full litigation team ahead! Dive! Dive! We have to face the facts, Milo. Regardless of what may or may not have been done in the ever-after, this is the era of the legal beagle. Nothing will happen until those damn dogs get done barking and yammering and howling at 3am so regular folks out there can get some sleep. And should that dog start barking, it would make the Florida 2000 case look like a Brownie Scout pillow-fight. Everything would be on the super-fast-track right down the hall, hot-and-cold-running-amicus briefs in every room and the ghost of Hunter S. Thompson banging his head against the wall. Wolf Blitzer will die of terminal levels of faked severe voices from "The Situation Room" and Dana Milbank will have a new book deal by sundown. It's gonna be ugly, folk. Remember that state fair you went to when you were a kid? Yeah. The one with the guy who could put an ear of corn up his nose and pull it out of his mouth. Much worse, Milo. Much worse. Best to not think about it, really. It's safer that way. Nothing's going to happen. The Service is in charge, and they don't LIKE headaches. Unlike certain members of the Denver Police Department, but that's a different comment. Do yourself a favor. Forget this topic. It's bad for your health. Take up a safer hobby, like spear-fishing with dynamite. Carpe jugulum.
David T., adults realize that bad things can happen, and make plans just in case. If you refuse to think about what can go wrong and insult those that do, you're a child - regardless of calendar age.
Yes. It is tasteless. But the death of the Presidental candidate or electee can produce a mess. The electoral process is a race with hurdles. Once a hurdle is jumped it is of no further concern. As the race progresses the process gels and the result becomes certain. That set of serial tests is why the time of the death matters and why only a very long essay, partly guesswork, could cover the topic.
I was wondering what would happen if McCain had a stroke or something before the election. Since we don't know that much about Palin, I would not want her to be president right off the bat.
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How classless to post this ten minutes before his convention speech.
Posted by Christopher M | August 28, 2008 9:58 PM