Don't. Feed. The. Trolls. Reasoning with a comment troll is like arguing politics with a pig. You don't get anywhere, and it annoys both you and the pig.
Many of your most avid readers rarely post (I'm one of them).
The comments section, while visible, is a small chunk of the ensuing debate, and certainly not the only arena for debate. Readers forward your posts to friends, friends talk about your posts, other bloggers link to you, etc. etc.
If it's really a problem and is getting in the way of good writing, disable comments. Your thoughtful readership will still take the time to email if they have a point they want to make.
I can count on one hand the number of posts I've commented on, but I forward your posts constantly to my dad, friends, etc. It's a pleasure to have you be the starting off point for some interesting discussions.
Sorry some folks make your job less than pleasant.
Who is a troll? I don't think this site has any trolls unless you count disagreeing with Megan as being a troll. Even Larry Moe and Jesus who gets on my nerves to no end would not count as a troll in my book. If you don't like responding to people with opinions you can't stand, you probably shouldn't bother with the internet or just go to sites like KOS where they rigorously enforce an orthadoxy.
Ugh! Megan, you're driving me crazy here. You can do something about this instead of just wistfully begging for people to ignore trolls, something which has never happened in the history of the Internet. This is your blog! You can ban people who actively try to sabotage the discussions! For God's sake, do it! Do it!!Why aren't you doing it??
Mark is right. This is your blog. Set some rules and enforce them. What you are suggesting is no different than the hostess who scolds her guests for not ignoring it when her brat children spray soda all over everyone.
If you made a point of ejecting the worst offenders here, the quality of discourse would increase dramatically.
John Mc writes: "If you made a point of ejecting the worst offenders here, the quality of discourse would increase dramatically."
Translation: John Mc hates it when anyone points out the complete moral and intellectual bankruptcy of movement conservatism and does so in an unkind fashion. He wouldn't dream of banning people who are blatant racists or who call anyone to the left of himself "socialists" or anyone who spouts Hannity/Coulter/Savage cant, though.
The discourse in these comments is positively mild by comparison to what goes on in the typical wingnut forum.
Blogging software really needs some equivalent of a Usenet kill file, so the rest of us wouldn't have to waste time scrolling past commenters like MLJ.
I think there is a laffer curve for trolls too. A few artful trolls liven things up. I think of Kevin Drum's blog, and without Al, things got dull. A great big echo chamber. Conversely, though most of the time now MLJ seems like he is phoning it in, he occasionally gets some real good zingers in.
The key is to keep the trolls hungry. Make them work for your response. The inartful trolls starve, and the artful trolls have to keep at the top of their art to get the attention they so desperately crave.
The no-doubt fascinating Bill Woods writes: "Blogging software really needs some equivalent of a Usenet kill file, so the rest of us wouldn't have to waste time scrolling past commenters like MLJ."
There are scads of posters here whose names and general approaches I recognize, but I can't recall reading a single post by a "Bill Woods" other than this one.
Perhaps all of the concern trolls aching with angst about the quality and tenor of posts here should stop their impotent bitching and spend some time writing memorable posts more to their liking.
But I guess that would take some actual effort, as opposed to the easy route they're taking now.
"Perhaps all of the concern trolls aching with angst about the quality and tenor of posts here should stop their impotent bitching and spend some time writing memorable posts more to their liking."
You silly humans. I will freely admit in this post that we are real, and are taking over your planet. Bush, McCain, and Obama are all working for us. And you know what the best part is? There isn't a damn thing any of you can do about it!
That's right, I can freely announce my existence, and yet if you try to use this message as proof that Reptoids exist, people will mock you, saying the message is an obvious hoax.
We have conditioned the vast majority of your planet's population to ridicule such notions, because we get a kick out of watching the few of you that have caught on to us, as you struggle in vain to convince the rest of the sheeple that we are a real threat. But don't worry, your futile efforts will soon come to an end.
Ok, this is really embarassing, I apologize for having interrupted your discussion. I had several blogs open at the same time and meant to post the previous message somewhere else.
However, my message still stands, though I admit it is somewhat off-topic here.
An ignore feature seems like a great way to deal with troublesome posters at the customer/individual level. The only downside would be the need to join and create a username in order to make comments. I imagine many of us would be willing to do so.
Nested comments might be nice. That way we could at least keep the conversations separate as we scrolled through a long response thread.
Personally, I read these posts, in part, for the comments since Megan's writing tends to gather an unusual amount of rational and fact-based writing (I'm looking for highs here. I can ignore lows. Though killfiles would be nice. )
My sincerest, heartfelt apologies go out to every person I have offended for my regrettable use of very inappropriate language. I am deeply disappointed in myself for writing out of anger to my fellow members and using such a hateful terms in this public forum.
Please know from my heart that I am not a Troll. I am not a Troll. Hatred of any kind goes against my atheism.
Nonetheless, I acted like a person completely out of control when I wrote, and wrote things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable, and yes: moronic. I am deeply ashamed of everything I have written. Also, I take this opportunity to apologize to the Megan for my belligerent behavior. I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with anti-social behaviors for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse. I apologize for any behavior unbecoming of me in my trollish state and have already taken necessary steps to ensure my return to health.
Yes, I have behaved badly. And to those people that I have offended, I want to say to them that I'm deeply sorry about that and I apologize.
MoeLarryAndJesus, don't feel bad. I sometimes act like a jerk on message boards too. For example, look at my above post. Sure, I am still planning to eradicate the vile infestation known as mankind from the universe, but there was no need to gloat about it.
Yet another impostor quotes and writes: "Another more sophisticated impostor, writes: "I have battled with backwards, ignorant conservative dimwits for all of my adult life."
That was not a half-bad impersonation. But you conserva-trolls should know by now that I don't use the "fixed your post" routine."
I would never have placed that comma between "impostor" and "writes."
I wouldn't use "conserva-troll," either. Conservatives are the trolls of the human race, so it would be a redundancy.
I don't know what all the different Moes are fighting about, is there really any difference between the two candidates? I know from personal experience that McCain and Obama are both in the pocket of the corporate interests, who are in turn in my pocket, and there really is nothing any of you can do about it. Like you're really going to throw your vote away on the Green party.
And the 11:13 and 11:30 posts are kind of strange. Neither looks fake, but one is claiming the other is. Who is the real MoeLarryAndJesus?
Hmmm, the plot thickens. One of the Moes has spotted an grammar mistake. Oh, I dare say he has outfoxed you, whoever 'he' and 'you' really are. Is the real Moe usually pretty good with punctuation? On Alpha Draconis we are typically pretty mellow about grammar, so I didn't even catch the distinction.
Are conservatives really the trolls of the human race? This is fascinating. I always thought the two parties and ideologies were virtually indistinguishable. But then again, you all seem so angry at each other all the time. Maybe one of the natives on the forum can explain the differences?
An impostor says: "the difference is that conservatives, waste their time impersonating liberals like me on message boards."
No, the difference is that conservatives do not learn from their mistakes. Like chuckles here, who keeps putting commas before his verbs, like a dirty little Bushpig Fascist.
Obviously one of the impostors is a like-minded individual who is trying to "help" me by replying to the Repiglicans' degenerate bile in my name. I can assure him that I need no such help.
Zarg, the difference is that conservatives, waste their time impersonating liberals like me on message boards.
Well, if you say so, but it seems to me all of you are equally guilty of that. But what do I know about human behavior. I flunked socio-xenology in high school.
It should be obvious to any of the fine specimens of humanity impersonating me that I take all of your trolling as a tribute. The fact that I am getting a reaction tells me that you guys are really scared to debate the real issues. The issue, in this case, being McChimpy's feeble corpse propped up by the wretched husk of the Repiglican party to serve its own nefarious ends.
See, that wasn't so hard was it? Now you try! Zarg, do you want to play? It's not hard, just mumble something about wretchedness and feeblness, cause it goes with McSame's age. We will convince someone that he is too old that way. I'm pretty sure its working. Also, I read on Dkos (or maybe it was Democratic Underground) somewhere that if we get McCain angry enough at us, he'll do or say something stupid, like the trolls who are responding to me now.
I'm deeply troubled that all of these fake Moes are lowering the bar when it comes to MoeLarryAndJesus impersonations. As the original FauxMaux, I can only say: "Shame on you, Fake Moes!"
Also: "McArdle, stop whining and moderate your comments if this kind of BS really bothers you!"
I am not a joke, and I don't understand why people are treating me like one. I asked my mother what it means, and she told me it's a tribute, and I must be hitting them where it hurts. But somehow, I get the impression lately that the people who are impersonating me don't actually care about politics at all, and might not even support Bush. So why are THEY impersonating me? My mom couldn't explain that one, so she just hugged me and told me it will all be ok.
A big meanie writes: "My mom couldn't explain that one, so she just hugged me and told me it will all be ok."
My mom was a Bushpig. Or, at least, I once found her in a bush with a pig. It was a traumatic experience that has had a profoundly damaging impact on my ability to relate normally to the rest of the world.
Please keep that in mind when you're tempted to mock me. I need love and understanding, not ridicule.
One of many impersonators babbles: "In my entire adult life I have never been so proud of my country."
You wanna know why I wasn't proud before? My father was a Repiglican and a fiend. And one night he goes off crazier than usual, pissed of about taxes. Mommy's gets the kitchen knife to defend herself, he doesn't like that, not one bit. So me watching, he takes the knife to her laughing while he does it. He turns to me and he says, "Bushpig!" He comes at me with the knife, "Bushpig!" He sticks the blade in my mouth, "Let’s put a smile on that face!" And...Bushpig!
I think there is a laffer curve for trolls too. A few artful trolls liven things up...
Once upon a time, long, long, ago at a place called "usenet", trolling was an art form, and there were a few Masters of it who were a wonder to behold and a joy to watch in action. The could make the lesser trolls march about in all directions as the Pied Piper did the rats of Hamelin.
All gone now, lost to the world forever, except in the memories of the Old Ones.
If any of them were to make a comeback it *would* be fun!
I've seen one or two flame wars between where it turned out in the end that it was all one person whose voices in his head escaped and took turns at the keyboard. There was some doubt that all of them knew the others existed.
Here's an idea. Move the "posted by [name]" message to the top rather than having it at the bottom.
That way mindless idiots would be easier to ignore, and wouldn't require much reconfiguring of the software to add personal exclusion lists or anything of the like.
I thought the trolls discussion with Prof Althouse was pretty interesting (and I don't really like video). I've had so few that I'm still not immune when someone gets snarky with me and I admire both of you for the philosophical resignation and/or thick skin you demonstrate. I know that I'd be banning people more frequently!
I argue politics with pigs constantly. I don't think it annoys them, particularly. They're generally in a constant state of annoyed to begin with.
I apologize, I will try harder.
This issue really has gotten to you, hasn't it?
Remember:
Many of your most avid readers rarely post (I'm one of them).
The comments section, while visible, is a small chunk of the ensuing debate, and certainly not the only arena for debate. Readers forward your posts to friends, friends talk about your posts, other bloggers link to you, etc. etc.
If it's really a problem and is getting in the way of good writing, disable comments. Your thoughtful readership will still take the time to email if they have a point they want to make.
Pigs may get annoyed, but trolls don't.
Megan McArdle - Someone who posts opinions online.
Internet Trolls - People who post opinions online.
Got it.
I second Geoff.
I can count on one hand the number of posts I've commented on, but I forward your posts constantly to my dad, friends, etc. It's a pleasure to have you be the starting off point for some interesting discussions.
Sorry some folks make your job less than pleasant.
Actually I think the pigs (and trolls) enjoy it.
test
Who is a troll? I don't think this site has any trolls unless you count disagreeing with Megan as being a troll. Even Larry Moe and Jesus who gets on my nerves to no end would not count as a troll in my book. If you don't like responding to people with opinions you can't stand, you probably shouldn't bother with the internet or just go to sites like KOS where they rigorously enforce an orthadoxy.
John writes: "Even Larry Moe and Jesus who gets on my nerves to no end would not count as a troll in my book."
Come on, John. We both know you don't have a book.
I stand corrected.
The expression is "You both get dirty. The difference is that the pig enjoys it." The way you've stated it doesn't really make sense.
FXKLM, you must be new here.
Ugh! Megan, you're driving me crazy here. You can do something about this instead of just wistfully begging for people to ignore trolls, something which has never happened in the history of the Internet. This is your blog! You can ban people who actively try to sabotage the discussions! For God's sake, do it! Do it!! Why aren't you doing it??
Megan,
Mark is right. This is your blog. Set some rules and enforce them. What you are suggesting is no different than the hostess who scolds her guests for not ignoring it when her brat children spray soda all over everyone.
If you made a point of ejecting the worst offenders here, the quality of discourse would increase dramatically.
John Mc writes: "If you made a point of ejecting the worst offenders here, the quality of discourse would increase dramatically."
Translation: John Mc hates it when anyone points out the complete moral and intellectual bankruptcy of movement conservatism and does so in an unkind fashion. He wouldn't dream of banning people who are blatant racists or who call anyone to the left of himself "socialists" or anyone who spouts Hannity/Coulter/Savage cant, though.
The discourse in these comments is positively mild by comparison to what goes on in the typical wingnut forum.
Blogging software really needs some equivalent of a Usenet kill file, so the rest of us wouldn't have to waste time scrolling past commenters like MLJ.
I think there is a laffer curve for trolls too. A few artful trolls liven things up. I think of Kevin Drum's blog, and without Al, things got dull. A great big echo chamber. Conversely, though most of the time now MLJ seems like he is phoning it in, he occasionally gets some real good zingers in.
The key is to keep the trolls hungry. Make them work for your response. The inartful trolls starve, and the artful trolls have to keep at the top of their art to get the attention they so desperately crave.
The no-doubt fascinating Bill Woods writes: "Blogging software really needs some equivalent of a Usenet kill file, so the rest of us wouldn't have to waste time scrolling past commenters like MLJ."
There are scads of posters here whose names and general approaches I recognize, but I can't recall reading a single post by a "Bill Woods" other than this one.
Perhaps all of the concern trolls aching with angst about the quality and tenor of posts here should stop their impotent bitching and spend some time writing memorable posts more to their liking.
But I guess that would take some actual effort, as opposed to the easy route they're taking now.
"Perhaps all of the concern trolls aching with angst about the quality and tenor of posts here should stop their impotent bitching and spend some time writing memorable posts more to their liking."
Great idea. When are you going to start?
You big fat doody-head.
You silly humans. I will freely admit in this post that we are real, and are taking over your planet. Bush, McCain, and Obama are all working for us. And you know what the best part is? There isn't a damn thing any of you can do about it!
That's right, I can freely announce my existence, and yet if you try to use this message as proof that Reptoids exist, people will mock you, saying the message is an obvious hoax.
We have conditioned the vast majority of your planet's population to ridicule such notions, because we get a kick out of watching the few of you that have caught on to us, as you struggle in vain to convince the rest of the sheeple that we are a real threat. But don't worry, your futile efforts will soon come to an end.
Ok, this is really embarassing, I apologize for having interrupted your discussion. I had several blogs open at the same time and meant to post the previous message somewhere else.
However, my message still stands, though I admit it is somewhat off-topic here.
Good day, Earthlings
An ignore feature seems like a great way to deal with troublesome posters at the customer/individual level. The only downside would be the need to join and create a username in order to make comments. I imagine many of us would be willing to do so.
I like pigs. They make good ham and bacon. I haven't tried a smoked troll yet...
Nested comments might be nice. That way we could at least keep the conversations separate as we scrolled through a long response thread.
Personally, I read these posts, in part, for the comments since Megan's writing tends to gather an unusual amount of rational and fact-based writing (I'm looking for highs here. I can ignore lows. Though killfiles would be nice. )
To all Atlantic.com bloggers:
My sincerest, heartfelt apologies go out to every person I have offended for my regrettable use of very inappropriate language. I am deeply disappointed in myself for writing out of anger to my fellow members and using such a hateful terms in this public forum.
Please know from my heart that I am not a Troll. I am not a Troll. Hatred of any kind goes against my atheism.
Nonetheless, I acted like a person completely out of control when I wrote, and wrote things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable, and yes: moronic. I am deeply ashamed of everything I have written. Also, I take this opportunity to apologize to the Megan for my belligerent behavior. I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior and for that I am truly sorry. I have battled with anti-social behaviors for all of my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse. I apologize for any behavior unbecoming of me in my trollish state and have already taken necessary steps to ensure my return to health.
Yes, I have behaved badly. And to those people that I have offended, I want to say to them that I'm deeply sorry about that and I apologize.
MoeLarryAndJesus, don't feel bad. I sometimes act like a jerk on message boards too. For example, look at my above post. Sure, I am still planning to eradicate the vile infestation known as mankind from the universe, but there was no need to gloat about it.
An impostor writes: "I have battled with anti-social behaviors for all of my adult life"
I have battled with backwards, ignorant conservative dimwits for all of my adult life.
There, I fixed it for you.
Another more sophisticated impostor, writes: "I have battled with backwards, ignorant conservative dimwits for all of my adult life."
That was not a half-bad impersonation. But you conserva-trolls should know by now that I don't use the "fixed your post" routine.
Yet another impostor quotes and writes: "Another more sophisticated impostor, writes: "I have battled with backwards, ignorant conservative dimwits for all of my adult life."
That was not a half-bad impersonation. But you conserva-trolls should know by now that I don't use the "fixed your post" routine."
I would never have placed that comma between "impostor" and "writes."
I wouldn't use "conserva-troll," either. Conservatives are the trolls of the human race, so it would be a redundancy.
I don't know what all the different Moes are fighting about, is there really any difference between the two candidates? I know from personal experience that McCain and Obama are both in the pocket of the corporate interests, who are in turn in my pocket, and there really is nothing any of you can do about it. Like you're really going to throw your vote away on the Green party.
And the 11:13 and 11:30 posts are kind of strange. Neither looks fake, but one is claiming the other is. Who is the real MoeLarryAndJesus?
Hmmm, the plot thickens. One of the Moes has spotted an grammar mistake. Oh, I dare say he has outfoxed you, whoever 'he' and 'you' really are. Is the real Moe usually pretty good with punctuation? On Alpha Draconis we are typically pretty mellow about grammar, so I didn't even catch the distinction.
Are conservatives really the trolls of the human race? This is fascinating. I always thought the two parties and ideologies were virtually indistinguishable. But then again, you all seem so angry at each other all the time. Maybe one of the natives on the forum can explain the differences?
Zarg, the difference is that conservatives, waste their time impersonating liberals like me on message boards.
An impostor says: "the difference is that conservatives, waste their time impersonating liberals like me on message boards."
No, the difference is that conservatives do not learn from their mistakes. Like chuckles here, who keeps putting commas before his verbs, like a dirty little Bushpig Fascist.
Obviously one of the impostors is a like-minded individual who is trying to "help" me by replying to the Repiglicans' degenerate bile in my name. I can assure him that I need no such help.
Zarg, the difference is that conservatives, waste their time impersonating liberals like me on message boards.
Well, if you say so, but it seems to me all of you are equally guilty of that. But what do I know about human behavior. I flunked socio-xenology in high school.
It should be obvious to any of the fine specimens of humanity impersonating me that I take all of your trolling as a tribute. The fact that I am getting a reaction tells me that you guys are really scared to debate the real issues. The issue, in this case, being McChimpy's feeble corpse propped up by the wretched husk of the Repiglican party to serve its own nefarious ends.
See, that wasn't so hard was it? Now you try! Zarg, do you want to play? It's not hard, just mumble something about wretchedness and feeblness, cause it goes with McSame's age. We will convince someone that he is too old that way. I'm pretty sure its working. Also, I read on Dkos (or maybe it was Democratic Underground) somewhere that if we get McCain angry enough at us, he'll do or say something stupid, like the trolls who are responding to me now.
I'm deeply troubled that all of these fake Moes are lowering the bar when it comes to MoeLarryAndJesus impersonations. As the original FauxMaux, I can only say: "Shame on you, Fake Moes!"
Also: "McArdle, stop whining and moderate your comments if this kind of BS really bothers you!"
Nice try, FauxMaux, but I was here first. And the real FauxMaux would never capitalize 'fake' where you did.
Both FauxMauxs are extremely tired and lame. I wish they would stop for the good of us mankind.
A fraud writes: "Both FauxMauxs are extremely tired and lame. I wish they would stop for the good of us mankind."
Nice try, chuckles, but only a Repiglican who supports Bushpigs would write something so wingnutty.
Yet another Repiglican writes: "Nice try, chuckles, but only a Repiglican who supports Bushpigs would write something so wingnutty."
Nice try, chuckles, but only I would write something so stupid.
I am not a joke, and I don't understand why people are treating me like one. I asked my mother what it means, and she told me it's a tribute, and I must be hitting them where it hurts. But somehow, I get the impression lately that the people who are impersonating me don't actually care about politics at all, and might not even support Bush. So why are THEY impersonating me? My mom couldn't explain that one, so she just hugged me and told me it will all be ok.
A big meanie writes: "My mom couldn't explain that one, so she just hugged me and told me it will all be ok."
My mom was a Bushpig. Or, at least, I once found her in a bush with a pig. It was a traumatic experience that has had a profoundly damaging impact on my ability to relate normally to the rest of the world.
Please keep that in mind when you're tempted to mock me. I need love and understanding, not ridicule.
An amateur impostor protests: "I am not a joke, and I don't understand why people are treating me like one."
They are treating you like a joke because you don't even understand that a good impersonation of me should follow the formula
x writes: "..."
...
If you don't follow the formula, how are other people supposed to avoid giving you the respect you don't deserve?
A silly little Repiglican bootlicker writes: "Nice try, chuckles, but only I would write something so stupid."
I love how you "conservatives" are so full of yourselves that you descend into self-parody at the very mention of my name.
In my entire adult life I have never been so proud of my country.
Hey, I don't think all of these posts claiming to be MoeLarryAndJesus are genuine.
One of many impersonators babbles: "In my entire adult life I have never been so proud of my country."
You wanna know why I wasn't proud before? My father was a Repiglican and a fiend. And one night he goes off crazier than usual, pissed of about taxes. Mommy's gets the kitchen knife to defend herself, he doesn't like that, not one bit. So me watching, he takes the knife to her laughing while he does it. He turns to me and he says, "Bushpig!" He comes at me with the knife, "Bushpig!" He sticks the blade in my mouth, "Let’s put a smile on that face!" And...Bushpig!
An impostor writes: "And one night he goes off crazier than usual, pissed of about taxes."
I would never mis-spell 'off'. Also, I am not a homicidal, sociopathic clown. Really.
I love it when the comments degenerate down to just ML&J arguing with himself about who the impostor is.
Good stuff!
I think there is a laffer curve for trolls too. A few artful trolls liven things up...
Once upon a time, long, long, ago at a place called "usenet", trolling was an art form, and there were a few Masters of it who were a wonder to behold and a joy to watch in action. The could make the lesser trolls march about in all directions as the Pied Piper did the rats of Hamelin.
All gone now, lost to the world forever, except in the memories of the Old Ones.
If any of them were to make a comeback it *would* be fun!
I've seen one or two flame wars between where it turned out in the end that it was all one person whose voices in his head escaped and took turns at the keyboard. There was some doubt that all of them knew the others existed.
I'm pretty sure they're all the real ML+J, and by extension they're probably Glen Greenwald.
Megan-
Here's an idea. Move the "posted by [name]" message to the top rather than having it at the bottom.
That way mindless idiots would be easier to ignore, and wouldn't require much reconfiguring of the software to add personal exclusion lists or anything of the like.
Simple change, dramatic usability improvement.
I thought the trolls discussion with Prof Althouse was pretty interesting (and I don't really like video). I've had so few that I'm still not immune when someone gets snarky with me and I admire both of you for the philosophical resignation and/or thick skin you demonstrate. I know that I'd be banning people more frequently!
I think you should consider allowing MLJ to guest blog for you the next time you go on vacation. Him and all 208 of his split personalities.
"I think you should consider allowing MLJ to guest blog for you the next time you go on vacation. Him and all 208 of his split personalities."
Unlike Repiglican country clubs, I'm fully integrated.
I'm not wearing any underwear.