"Sometimes people take a gun to the head of a branch manager," says Jihad al-Wazir, governor of the Palestine Monetary Authority. "Then I get a phone call."
The PMA is a most unusual central bank. It lacks a currency and a country. It can't control interest rates or fight inflation, like other central banks. And it communicates with its Gaza branch office by videoconference because Israel regularly blocks the border to PMA officials. Meanwhile, Hamas, the militant Islamist party that rules Gaza, wants to boot out the central bank's leader.
The PMA is playing a critical role nonetheless, pressing banks in the West Bank and Gaza to modernize. Its efforts have made it easier for well-off Palestinians abroad to invest back home. That's a big reason households' bank deposits rose by 20% in 2007, according to the International Monetary Fund.
The PMA also is encouraging enterprise in the territories, where much of the population now depends on make-work government jobs. It aims to turn itself into a "full-fledged central bank" by 2010, meaning one with the ability to manage a currency in case a Palestinian state is created.
I don't think its possible to build a viable state out of the shreds the settlements have left. But if such a miracle is possible, it will need a solid banking system, with serious standards of corporate government, to repair the ravages of the current conflict.
"I don't think its possible to build a viable state out of the shreds the settlements have left."
Thriving states have been built on small pieces of land, e.g., Singapore, Hong Kong, Luxembourg, etc. The ~>5% of the West Bank Israel would probably retain in any final settlement (probably in exchange for 5% of current Israeli territory elsewhere) won't prevent a Palestine from being viable; Palestinian corruption and nihilism will do that.
where much of the population now depends on make-work government jobs.
How do you fund something like that?
I do. I just don't think the Palestinians could.
What would happen if you took the Israelis, threw them into the PA, and gave them all the possessions of the Palestinians, and took all the Palestinians, and gave them Israel, complete with all the equipment, military included?
I'd bet that within ten years the Palestinians would be dirt broke again and once again the Israelis would be growing crops and skyscrapers in the desert.
Regardless of which side you think is "right" or "wrong", it's pretty obvious which side is competent and which one isn't.
See, if they're Palestinians, you can be openly racist. And make no mistake, that's what this is. I know that we live in a society now where making accusations of racism is far more socially damaging than actually being a racist. But when you simply assert that one race of people is incompetent, corrupt and nihilistic, that is racism. By any meaningful definition whatsoever. Of course, you only need to ask Fred about black people to understand his feelings about race.Jews good, Palestinians bad-- it's the basic caculus behind pro-occupation rhetoric, I'm afraid.
I love how people talk as though the existence of Israel is simply the product of Israeli bootstrapping, and not because there was an enormous international effort to establish a state for them, spearheaded by the most powerful nation on the globe. And I love how people continue to act as though the billions of dollars in direct foreign and military aid; massive military and intelligence cooperation; and unquestioned, non-discriminating diplomatic shielding the US provides for Israel have nothing to do with the success of Israel. Why, it's just Israeli virtue!
(sorry to hijack the thread, Megan)
Isn't the Israeli virtue that they've very craftily infiltrated all parts of the American government-military-industrial complex and have fooled us into supporting them against our interests? I'm pretty sure that's what I took away from M&W.
I differ from "secret asian man" though. I have no doubt at all that if the Palestinians had the Israelis' land and military power & vice versa, the Israelis wouldn't last very long. The Palestinians would murder all of the Israelis in no time at all. For decades, their culture has been so poisoned by hate that they would much prefer to kill the Jews than to live in peace. The only thing preventing it is that they don't have the means. Without apportioning credit or blame for that (I know what Freddie thinks and I'm pretty sure I know what Megan thinks too), it's the reality.
If saying the above makes me a racist, then so be it. From the standpoint of my Israeli friends and family, I'm pretty sure it's better to be racist than dead.
(sorry to hijack the thread, Megan)
Isn't the Israeli virtue that they've very craftily infiltrated all parts of the American government-military-industrial complex and have fooled us into supporting them against our interests? I'm pretty sure that's what I took away from M&W.
I differ from "secret asian man" though. I have no doubt at all that if the Palestinians had the Israelis' land and military power & vice versa, the Israelis wouldn't last very long. The Palestinians would murder all of the Israelis in no time at all. For decades, their culture has been so poisoned by hate that they would much prefer to kill the Jews than to live in peace. The only thing preventing it is that they don't have the means. Without apportioning credit or blame for that (I know what Freddie thinks and I'm pretty sure I know what Megan thinks too), it's the reality.
If saying the above makes me a racist, then so be it. From the standpoint of my Israeli friends and family, I'm pretty sure it's better to be racist than dead.
So Israel producing more than all the countries surrounding it is because the world supports it (even though the UN does little but condemn it, one would think). And noting this obvious fact is racist. Thanks for setting us straight, Freddie.
So Israel producing more than all the countries surrounding it is because the world supports it (even though the UN does little but condemn it, one would think). And noting this obvious fact is racist. Thanks for setting us straight, Freddie.
Do even you believe this refutes anything I've said? Israel receives more material support from the United States than any country receives from any other country in the world. The US-Israeli relationship is unique in the world. Yes, having the most powerful country in the history of the world defending and supporting you at every turn and in every meaningful way has an enormous effect on the progress of Israel. How could it possibly not? You're not even bothering to attack that argument. How could you? The enormous military backing, espionage sharing, economic subsidizing and diplomatic protecting that the United States performs for Israel is undeniable, and a fact of routine knowledge in Israel itself. Please try to come up with an argument next time you want to refute something, thanks.
"secret asian man" and Fred have explicitly said that a race of people are inherently inferior. What possible meaning can the word racism have, if it doesn't include that kind of thinking? Please, enlighten me. Who are racists if not people who think races of people are inherently nihilistic, destructive and immoral?
"secret asian man" and Fred have explicitly said that a race of people are inherently inferior.
They most certainly have not. Fred referred to corruption and nihilism, which are not racial traits but which do seem present in the areas controlled by the PA (as well as other violent or failed states controlled by people of other races such as Somalia, parts of Colombia, parts of the Balkans, etc); secret asian man said he didn't think a group of people defined by geography are capable of building a stable state. Neither of them, for instance, disparaged Arab-Americans, who as a group do not seem nearly so inclined to shoot members of opposing political parties as Palestinians.
My own belief is that if we replaced the existing occupants of PA-controlled areas with Arab-Americans, we could expect a fairly pleasant liberal state to bloom. The issues being culture and the educational system, not race.
Maybe one reason you observed that accusations of racism are punished more harshly than actual racism is that 1) your definition of "racism" is wildly overbroad, and therefore 2) you frequently make erroneous accusations of racism.
You, Rob, are one of the hordes of people who would claim to be a staunch opponent of racism, but will never see racism in any actual situation. Well, sorry, but when people say that certain ethnic groups are inferior, as those two most certainly did, I'm going to call a spade a spade. If you want to debate the semantics of race and ethnicity, you can go ahead. The fact that you can't see a difference between a Saudi or a Syrian or an Arab Turk and a Palestinian demonstrates the degree of your bias.
It's very simple: if you substitute Jews for Palestinians in these comments, the accusations of anti-Semitism would fly instantly.
If I talked about Jewish nihilism and corruption openly, what would happen? If I called Jews incompetent, what would happen?
Jaws would drop. There would be audible gasps. I'd be vilified, pilloried. See it's OK to attack some groups with stereotypes, broad labels and sweeping applications of guilt. Just not the wrong ones.
Freddie, and the Palestinians don't get aid from the EU and other Arab countries?
Keep screaming racism, that's easier than facing the fact that there is a gigantic culture of corruption in Palestine that has killed far more Palestinians in the past few years than the Israelis.
Why do you think the fighting between Hamas and Fatah is so bitter? It's because they're fighting over western and arab handouts which their corrupt culture has made into the only form of subsistence.
And yes, you'll probably blame Israel for all of Palestine's economic woes, but Israeli blockades aren't the only thing keeping Palestinians in the poorhouse. The lynch mobs that go after any Palestinian unlucky enough to be seen as insufficiently anti-Israeli have more than a little to do with it, as does the incessant extortion and corruption by whatever party is in power.
Not really. If you called Jews incompetent, the more likely result would be laughter.
It's very simple: if you substitute Jews for Palestinians in these comments, the accusations of anti-Semitism would fly instantly.
Sure, if you substituted the Jews, which are an ethnic/religious group, for an explicitly nationalist group, yeah, that'd be racist.
But I mean, that's because one is a racial group and the other is a national group. You might want to say "Israelis" next time, but I suppose *your* racism is showing...
So Freddie, if I refer to "Russian corruption," does that make me an anti-Russian racist, or is that a fair shorthand for corruption which occurs within the government of the land known as Russia?
If you talked about Jewish corruption, of course jaws would drop. And if SAM or Fred had talked about "Arab corruption" in the context of the PA, you'd have valid cause for complaint. But the PA is corrupt, it does promote nihilism (especially through the schools), and "Palestinian corruption" seems like just as fair a shorthand for "corruption occuring in the land known as Palestine" as it would for "Russian corruption" or "American corruption" or "Chinese corruption." Or, for that matter, "Israeli corruption."
SAM dances closer to the line. He could have added more qualifiers, but his point is susceptible to both racist interpretations and non-racist, cultural ones. I suppose you can pick the one most favorable to your point, but I don't see why the rest of us are required to assume the worst.
It's very simple: if you substitute Jews for Palestinians in these comments, the accusations of anti-Semitism would fly instantly.
Sure, if you substituted the Jews, which are an ethnic/religious group, for an explicitly nationalist group, yeah, that'd be racist.
But I mean, that's because one is a racial group and the other is a national group. You might want to say "Israelis" next time, but I suppose *your* racism is showing...
Freddie,
I agree that Israel has gotten large support from the world at large, and that this has helped its development. However I would say that the prevailing culture of entrepreneurial capitalism has also been a large contributing factor. And the prevailing culture of religious fanaticism (and somewhat nihilism) in the West Bank and Gaza Strip has been largely detrimental to the ends of producing an independent, wealthy nation.
The factors here aren't biological, they're cultural. Israelis are brought up in a society where work and production bring wealth, success, and comfort. Palestinians are brought up in a society where for reasons both internal and external, there are few examples of hard work paying off, and many examples of arbitrary destruction.
Culture matters a huge deal in the development of nations. We may be asked to respect all cultures, but we can simultaneously recognize that with regard to specific goals, some cultural tendencies are more effective than others.
What causes cultural differences has nothing to do inherently with biology, though it can have to do with how you are treated because of your race. Being Arab in and of itself doesn't make you leery of western values. Being treated as a constant suspect who is guilty until proven innocent because you're Arab can make those feelings come out.
It's a matter of perspective, of course. But I cringe for our country when the fact that I ever think statements or actions are moments of racism makes me into a race-hysteric. Look, this forum becomes a hotbed of racism denial when race is mentioned, whenever it happens, whatever the scenario. There are accusations of racism that are accurate and fair, and those that aren't. But when a group of people falls all over themselves to deny charges of racism every time the subject is broached, I think that says more about them than about the truth of the accusations.
I'm confused by the idea that it's illegitimate to attack people based on race but not based on geography. Both fail for the same reason, because they attack large groups of individuals based on the failings, or perceived failings, of a few. This is a near constant theme in the Israeli-Palestinian discussion. The current oppression of the Palestinians is defended with appeals to, say, the Arab-Israeli wars. I have a very hard time understanding how, say, the actions of the Egyptian government in 1973 justifies the killing of a Palestinian 11 year old in 2008. We don't apply broad labels or make negative assumptions against groups of people because the charges are inevitably inaccurate for some portion of those groups. If you're uncomfortable with calling the Palestinians an ethnic class and would prefer to simply say that their terminology is based on geography, you're entitled, though I think it's foolish. But that fact doesn't make painting all Palestinians with one brush any more palatable or moral. And again, it is precisely that kind of thinking that has created anti-Jew hatred for millennia. You can't help a historically oppressed and marginalized people by appealing to exactly the kind of thinking that has caused them their suffering.
But when a group of people falls all over themselves to deny charges of racism every time the subject is broached, I think that says more about them than about the truth of the accusations.
This is an argument? People deny racism, ipso facto they are racists? Seriously, WTF?
I'm confused by the idea that it's illegitimate to attack people based on race but not based on geography
Perhaps that's because you don't really have a good grasp on what racism actually is.
The current oppression of the Palestinians is defended with appeals to, say, the Arab-Israeli wars.
Really? Even if so, what relevance does that have to anything said here?
Freddie, I see your point about sweeping generalizations, but we're talking about the possibility of peace and democracy. That requires that an fairly overwhelming bulk of people privilege process over outcome. Even a fairly small minority of insane zealots can seize control by intimidation. And once they do, they can prevent the will of the majority from being expressed, such that only violent zealotry of another kind can unseat them.
We can easily believe that the majority of Palestinian people are decent and peace loving but still recognize that the political culture is dominated by extremists who are violent, corrupt, and nihilistic. Change that, and prosperity may come (it seemed to be on the way after Oslo, remember). Don't change that, and no quantity of material aid can make life pleasant. That is how I understood SAM's (perhaps infelicitously phrased) point. It is, however, susceptible to alternative interpretations.
BTW Freddie, the people who were saying that DC's government sucks because it's run by blacks: those people were authentic racists.
Freddie,
Thanks for derailing the thread with spurious accusations of racism. I've made no claims about Palestinians as "a race", and of course, "Palestinian" isn't a race but a national group.
I'd be the first to acknowledge that there are some highly talented and competent Palestinians -- they often fill key business and professional roles in other Arab countries and in the West. Those expat Palestinians aren't representative of PA society though. The most competent and industrious Palestinians -- the ones who would be necessary to build a state -- are elsewhere, and probably wouldn't be too enthusiastic about returning to a PA- or Hamas-controlled Palestine.
Freddie,
This discussion sounds like a cue for the old joke about the EU combining the advantages of all member nations as (e.g.) English cuisine, Italian bureaucratic efficiency, and German policing. (There are innumerable variants; this is I how I last heard it.) In your terms this is obviously RACIST humor, but at least it's intelligible racist humor, which it wouldn't be if one started swapping the nationalities around in it.
In the same way, a joke that turned on the notorious incompetence of the Jews wouldn't be sufficiently intelligible to be recognized even as humor. And if you started ranting about Jewish incompetence, I don't think the slack jaws you'd undoubtedly see would be attributable to "OMG! Anti-Semitism!"
Freddie - I know that we live in a society now where making accusations of racism is far more socially damaging than actually being a racist.
In our society, racism is a very serious charge, therefore it demands serious support. Unfortunately, it is often made based on very slight evidence and with little care or deliberation.
But when you simply assert that one race of people is incompetent, corrupt and nihilistic, that is racism.
Racially, the Palestinians are very similar to the Israelis and indistinguishable from Egyptians or Lebanese. Culturally, they are not. Some cultures ARE more functional than others. Or else how do you explain the material success of one group and the failure of another? Simple landscape and differences in megafauna, ala Jared Diamond?
...and not because there was an enormous international effort to establish a state for them, spearheaded by the most powerful nation on the globe.
The Israelis fought their war for independence without US help and with British resistance to armament. Currently, yes, the Israelis get considerable US support.
But when a group of people falls all over themselves to deny charges of racism every time the subject is broached, I think that says more about them than about the truth of the accusations.
Of course they're all racist! Look, they're denying the baseless accusation using rational arguments and analogies! How much more racist can you get?
Honestly, Freddie, if the existence of multiple sound counterarguments against an accusation are what you use as evidence supporting the original claim I'm simply not sure how to have a rational discussion with you.
Palestinian corruption and nihilism will do that.
I don't care one whit about this discussion of whether ascribing negative traits collectively to Palestinians is racist, but I do want to point out that the "nihilist" label as applied to Palestinians is completely asinine. Most Palestinians are Muslims, and hold a wide range of religious beliefs; therefore, they cannot be nihilists. Whatever you think a nihilist is, someone who claims to believe in a god is not a nihilist.
An aside: I think it's time to retire the word "nihilist" once and for all, because the term has been so emptied of its historical meaning (oh, the irony) that it has become a basic term of opprobium for Someone Whose Values We Don't Like. Nihilism is best understood in relation to its original usage, which was (if I remember) in relation to a certain intellectual and political movement in Russia in the 19th century.
Is there anyone left in the world who still calls themselves a nihilist? Jean Baudrillard did, but he's dead, now.
If the word wasn't already in use with a different meaning, I'd suggest the term culturist for what Freddie is calling racist. I believe some cultures (Def'n: "The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.") are inferior to others, and the current Palestinian culture is markedly inferior to the Israeli culture. Biology plays no part in my judgment.
Would you argue that it's wrong to judge people based on their attitudes and behaviors?
It's curious how history repeats itself (or, as Mark Twain said, it occasionally rhymes)... back in pre-Israeli days, when Jews were a powerless, despised minority in most of the countries they lived in, explanations for their "inferiority" abounded. These tended to place the blame on the supposed inherent defects of the Jewish people or culture (too clannish, stingy, devious, etc.) and ignore the roles played by intentional persecution and exclusion.
These excuses became obsolete as the success of the Israeli state was undeniable, but they didn't die... they just shifted to a a different group of Semites.
I have to add some points to the assertion that Israel's success is do to the support of the "west" and specifically the largesse of the United States. First of all, most of the "aid" given to Israel was in the form of government guarantees (of about 2/3 of the amount of aid each year). During the highest amount (as a % of Isreal's GDP), probably the $3 billion during the Reagan administration, this was on $2 Billion. But that was NOT $2 bill in aid, but in guarantees. Those are still worth money, but only in the difference of what guaranteed loans would have cost. The rest was in military grants that included the requirement Israel use them to buy only US equipment.
More to the point, it is likely that these loans did not play a major part in Israels economic success as much as they defrayed the huge cost of defense that Israel had to pay to ensure her survival. In other words, Israels success, while benefiting economically from US aid, was not DEPENDENT on it.
And for the libertarians out there... at least Israel's aid was clear to see. The Europeans also had the benefit of US subsidy of their defense except it had no separate line item in the budget but was included in the whole defense budget hiding the real cost (and benefit).
I have to add some points to the assertion that Israel's success is do to the support of the "west" and specifically the largesse of the United States. First of all, most of the "aid" given to Israel was in the form of government guarantees (of about 2/3 of the amount of aid each year). During the highest amount (as a % of Isreal's GDP), probably the $3 billion during the Reagan administration, this was on $2 Billion. But that was NOT $2 bill in aid, but in guarantees. Those are still worth money, but only in the difference of what guaranteed loans would have cost. The rest was in military grants that included the requirement Israel use them to buy only US equipment.
More to the point, it is likely that these loans did not play a major part in Israels economic success as much as they defrayed the huge cost of defense that Israel had to pay to ensure her survival. In other words, Israels success, while benefiting economically from US aid, was not DEPENDENT on it.
And for the libertarians out there... at least Israel's aid was clear to see. The Europeans also had the benefit of US subsidy of their defense except it had no separate line item in the budget but was included in the whole defense budget hiding the real cost (and benefit).
Sorry for the double post.
I've taken pains in the past to say that I don't think that expressing skepticism about racism means that some is racist, and I'm on record as saying that I don't really believe in racist people, only racist acts or racist utterances.
It's been a long time since I've been in a dustup like this around here. It's way more fun than watching Camp Rock again.
I don't really believe in racist people, only racist acts or racist utterances.
If only you could have met this one guy at an oil-change place I once worked at. He was so racist, the drunken redneck white-trash employees of the place nearly beat him up. (He was fired to prevent that)
Howard is to be commended for accepting his racism, but he is wrong that the only choices are racism or death. That one need not be racist to co-exist with former enemies is evidenced by the large number of multi-ethnic societies around the world in which a relatively strong and secular state protects, by and large, the rights of all of its citizens. This set includes not only the Western democracies, but examples from nearly every continent.
Regarding the claim that only Palestinians have a culture poisoned by hate, I would refer Howard, secret asian man, and all other concerned citizens to any mainstream Israeli newspaper, all of which regularly publish details of unjustified Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians, such as the ever increasing rates of settler violence (e.g. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/988477.html or http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1000210.html) or the recent shooting (with a rubber bullet) of a Palestinian detainee. In Israel, at least, if not in America, it is clear that insecurity, occupation, fear, hate and violence are dehumanizing everyone in Israel/Palestine.
Freddie:
The problem with your statement is that is both false and wrong.
It's false because Israeli is a multi-ethnic country. There are plenty of Israeli citizens who are Arabs, and plenty more Jewish Israeli citizens that are part-Arab through intermarriage. Young Israeli Arabs are far more likely to go to school to learn than to blow it up.
Maybe I'm a racist for pointing out how one group of Arabs differs from another group of Arabs!
Your statement, besides being false, is also wrong. Just because something offends you (in this case, by being "racist") does not make it false. If I was to point out that Sherpas have more natural aptitude for high altitudes than Scots, this might offend you. You may cry that it is "racism". It's also true.
Just because something is politically unpalatable does not make it false.
If only Yaniv were correct... by and large, multi-ethnic societies are full of strife.
Examples abound on the negative side: the rise of a Muslim underclass in various European countries (riots in France? Theo Van Gogh?); Rwanda; Sudan; Zimbabwe; India; the Balkans; Iraq; Georgia... the list goes on. Clannish and xenophobic behavior appears to be a nearly universal way of life - even if I don't like it. I wonder which harmonious multi-ethnic societies Yaniv is talking about.
Many thanks for the Haaretz links - incidentally, I am a regular reader of Israeli mainstream papers (sadly, my Hebrew has slipped and it's harder for me to understand Yediot at this point). The comparison here is also sadly off base though. It's unfair to compare the fringe of a not-entirely-popular Israeli settler movement to the mainstream of Palestinian society.
I do wish that murderous Jew-hatred were a majority winning position among the Palestinians... but I may as well wish for a pet unicorn while I'm at it.
Yaniv: The difference there being, as far as I can see from the US, that Palestinian actions that show poisoning by hate are celebrated by the Palestinian culture (not by all individuals, of course, but by the majority culture).
While, in contrast (as Howard suggested), hate-poisoned actions by individual Israelis are condemned by the vast majority of Israelis (ie, the majority culture of Israel condemns it).
No country or group is free of monsters or horrible bastards; however, some cultures approve, celebrate, and encourage behaviours others don't.
(See also the difference between the Japanese Imperial Army in Nanking and the US Marine Expeditionary Force in Iraq - both contained non-zero murderers and rapists.
The former were acting under orders and their actions condoned.
The latter were breaking the law and disobeying orders* and have been whenever possible caught, tried, and sentenced to prison.
That is the difference between cultures, despite the nominally identical actions of individuals.
* And, had they been ordered to commit such crimes, would have been required by the UCMJ to disobey.)
My god, this is the most ridiculous comment thread I've stumbled across in a looooooong time.
And, for what it's worth, a friend of mine who's half Egyptian, and who went to Gaza to supervise the Israeli disengagement in 2005 or whenever it was, says some of the most vitriolic anti-Arab (and particularly anti-Palestinian) stuff I've ever heard. Particularly since the Hamas takeover, I think she's really given up completely on the Palestinians.