A vegetarian hating friend sends me this article showing that vegetarians are more likely to have brain shrinkage than meat eaters.
That explains it, then.
More seriously, this article did not make me reach for a steak. It's perfectly easy to get enough B12 by using nutritional yeast, plus if you're me, eating non-vegan food that your relatives slip you on the grounds that what you don't know won't hurt you.
You should be using nutritional yeast anyway because it has a lovely, savory flavor. Particularly recommended in pesto to substitute for the parmesan cheese, and in your breakfast tofu scramble.
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The simple fact is we don't know enough to be making radical judgment calls with our diets like "eat -only- these foods"
Vegetarianism has impacts. Eating too much meat has impacts. You can't expect to get the same type of vitamin, protein, etc from yeast that you get from meat, even if they both are the same vitamin. Your body absorbs them differently.
Eating a balance diet that doesn't indulge too far in any one direction is THE BEST advice you can give someone.
Once you jump all into advocacy of veggie/vegan only or low carb hi protein, or whatever the latest fad is then you run into issues.
It's actually not a good idea to rely on nutritional yeast as your main source of vitamin B12, especially if you're buying it from bulk bins at a health food store rather than in its original package. See here:
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources
It's good stuff, though, I agree. But supplements are both cheaper and a far more reliable source of B12.
You should absolutely not count on nutritional yeast for B12, not even those who claim to be fortified. I know a famous animal rights person who had terrible B12 deficiency, but wouldn't believe it because he ate nutritional yeast. Read this:
http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12
And to see it can be done, see this:
http://veganhealth.org/articles/realveganchildren
Note that the second child, Ellen, just finished fourth for her cross-country team, as a freshman, in her first full-team meet (where Ellen's team won against three other teams, including the defending state champs).
Nutritional yeast? I'd rather my brain shrink!
Where would one get nutritional yeast in a normal grocery store? Would this be located in the baking isle along with the yeast I'm more familiar with? Somethign tells me it wouldn't.
Is B12 deficiency the reason that study found soy eaters have late-in-life brain shinkage? I'm asking as a meat eater who was reminded that he actually likes tofu by your earlier post on the subject.
Love brewer's yeast on popcorn. And if you're a Brit, Kiwi, or Aussie, (or live with a Brit, like me) there's always Marmite . Both loaded with B-vitamins.
Wouldn't yeast be alive and, therefore, something you're not allowed to eat? I have a friend who is only vegetarian but won't eat bread with yeast or cheese with rennett (sp?) because those things are alive.
Kate: Vegans eat all sorts of things that are or were alive - namely, plants. It's only sentient animals that we're typically worried about, since they're the ones that can suffer and feel pain. Yeast is a microorganism of the kingdom Fungi, so there's no more of a reason to avoid it than there is to avoid, say, mushrooms.
I don't know why your friend won't eat bread with yeast. But the rennet traditionally used in cheesemaking is an extract from the stomach lining of slaughtered calves, which is why many vegetarians avoid it.
You should be using nutritional yeast anyway because it has a lovely, savory flavor. Particularly recommended in pesto to substitute for the parmesan cheese, and in your breakfast tofu scramble.
You know what all of these lovely flavor enhancers have in common? Monosodium glutamate. MSG: it's awesome.
Vegemite! Vegemite! Vegemite!
In 2006 the US Food and Drug Administration had to deny reports that it had banned Vegemite for importation to the US, fortunately averting what might have become a major diplomatic brouhaha with Australia.
Megan,
To second the cheering comment previous, is Vegemite and the less popular variant Marmite nutritional yeast, and have you ever tasted either? I've always been curious.
I once had a nutritional yeast infection. Never again.
You vegans can eat my triple-bacon cheeseburger dust!
As far as I know, the only danger with vegetarianism is when growing kids don't get enough protein. I know a pediatrician who did a study in Java to see if folks (adults) could really survive on a rice-only diet. He concluded that they could, but that most rice-only diets included some protein in the form of fish sauces. He also concluded that lack of protein in youngsters was the only danger with rice-only diets, but that most kids were able to eat enough protein in the form of fish or meat scraps or fish sauces.
Well - the article is somewhat contradicting this BBC report.
But I am a tad tired of this B12 discussion regarding vegans. First - it is a matter not well investigated - in vegans and non-vegans. There is a theory that unless we eat too acidy foods - micro-organism in our guts can produce B12 - like they do in other animals - but who really knows. What we do know is that vegans get tested for B12 more often than meat-eaters and hence... never mind.
I have not consumed any B12 for 5 years - supposedly the dangerous time-frame and my blood tests were just fine. I know of 2 other vegans who have had good values without additional supplements and I have also met one vegan who had lower B12 values. We now all consume some B12 via soy milk or supplements - but that is to be on the safe side.
What is rarely discussed is that vegans, who do take B12 supplements, are probably better off than your average meat-eater in the US. First - B12 breaks down when cooked - second unnatural consumption leads to high-acids which in turn kill nutirents.
The USDA on the whole matter:
The point is that vegans generally tend to check their B12
Taking sub-lingual vitamin B12 "dots" is a good safety measure for a vegan to take. The sublingual part is important, because then it gets absorbed at the first point of your digestive system, instead of being broken down later.
On a tangental note, algae-derived DHA capsules are a good source of essential fatty acids, and veganessentials and pangeaveg.com sell two different kinds.
BTW, love Nut. Yeast on popcorn!
I have been vegan since Feb. of 2002. My wife has been vegan for about a year less. My B-12 is right in the middle of the normal range. My wife just had her B-12 level measured. Her results came back >1000 pg/mL. Normal is 239 to 931 so she is somewhere above the maximum normal level of B-12. Neither of us go out of our way to eat nutritional yeast or anything. The need for B-12 is very low and lots of typical vegan foods are fortified.
Cool Cal: I have a bottle of Vegemite in my 'fridge. It has an intense, salty, faintly metallic flavor; difficult to eat straight, but oddly appealing as a spread on a turkey sandwich. It also goes with avocado.
I've also had the flaked nutritional yeast Megan talks about. When I was at a restaurant in Christchurch, there was a bowl of it sitting next to the croutons at the salad bar. It's pretty good.
IMO, however, the best source of yeast is a good bottle of hefeweizen.
Rex, while a "rice only" diet may be technically "vegetarian", it is not a typical vegetarian diet. Vegetarians and vegans who eat a variety of plant based foods easily get enough protein and other nutrients. In fact, the American Dietetic Association says a well planned vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life, including childhood, infancy and pregnancy. Comparing a rice only diet with a vegan diet is a giant leap.
The article sited above is also making a giant leap by saying that since a study shows that B12 definciency is bad for the brain that vegans are more likely to have brain shrinkage. The study didn't show that vegans are more likely to be deficient in B12, nor did it show that vegans are likely to have brain shrinkage.
Vegans can easily get all of their B12 from the same sources that animals get theirs - from microorganisms like spirulina, chlorella, nutritional yeast or even nutritional supplements. B12 is produced by creatures like certain types of soil bacteria. When animals eat plants with soil bacteria they get B12. When people eat plants with soil bacteria, they too can get B12. Vegans can easily get B12 without eating dirt or animal guts by taking supplements or eating the aforementioned foods.
yeast as a substitute for a 24 month old original parmesan - in pesto. Give me break.
Vegans eat all sorts of things that are or were alive - namely, plants. It's only sentient animals that we're typically worried about, since they're the ones that can suffer and feel pain.
Why don't you think plants can feel pain? Any organism capable of self-repair has to know when its undergone damage, so the repairs can begin.
Since plants can heal, we know they must experience damage; if you're arguing that's not "pain" then you're simply operating from a circular definition. I could just as easily say that what animals feel is not pain, but simply signals of bodily damage.
Chet: Pain isn't a signal to begin self repair. It's a signal to get away from the source of the pain. People who are born without the ability to feel pain don't lack the ability to heal (as far as I know), but they do lack the ability to know immediately when they're being injured, and to stop the source of the injury before it gets worse.
Non-sessile animals have evolved the ability to feel pain for exactly that reason: Knowing immediately that a predator is biting you or that you've cut your finger with a kitchen knife means that you can try to shake off the predator or pull the knife away, and that gives you a survival advantage over someone without that ability. Plants can't respond to damage with anywhere near the same kind of immediacy as animals can, so it doesn't make evolutionary sense for them to have acquired the ability to feel pain.
You can also look at it anatomically. We know that our ability to feel pain has to do with our nerves and brains. Animals (at least, most of the animals that humans typically eat) have nerves and brains; plants do not. It's reasonable to conclude that animals can feel pain and plants cannot.
Of course, we don't have 100% proof that plants can't feel pain. But neither do I have 100% proof that people other than me *can* feel pain. We have to reason based on the evidence that we've got.
Nutritional yeast is NOT the best source of B12. Get it from a medicine dropper and you're much safer.
And find B12 fortified products, such as soy milk and cereal.
A little B12 lasts a long time, so there's no need to take it every day--the body stores it.
Eh, I think that you, Megan, as a vegan, are being a little unfair to vegetarians here by using "vegetarians" rather than "vegans" in the title.
The study is about vitamin B12, which, as the article says, you get mostly from meat and dairy. That presents an obvious problem for vegans -- yes, they can get B12, but it's hard. I'm a vegetarian and I eat/drink plenty of dairy, so I don't worry about B12.
I know the study referred to "vegetarians" and "vegans," but if their findings swept the two together, then the vegans might have tainted any findings on vegetarians.
Bottom line: to report a finding that's based on vitamin B12 deficiency as having to do with "vegetarians" doesn't really seem fair. You're a vegan -- take shots at vegans. And take shots at vegetarians too if you have something relevant about us; this just doesn't seem relevant.
OLDER FOLKS. . lose the enzyme to absorb B12-hence the sublingual variety-or injections from the DOCTOR.
ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BIOPERINE-as B12 ABSORPTION AID???
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
NEWSWIRE--Vegetarians could be six times more at risk of brain-shrinking diseases, compared to meat-eaters.
Ponder please, before your next new diet starts,
All the vegetables we link to body parts:
Both the cabbage and the lettuce are a head,
And the Adam's apple blushes shades of red.
Though the orange has a Navel in its name,
Ears of corn and cauliflower aren't the same.
Folks in Idaho will bake potato skin;
From the palm we get to eat the hearts within.
All these ties will help a veggie diet shrink
Both the inches of your waist
And where you think.
www.newsandverse.com
Light verse, ripped from the headlines
Vitamin B-12 is virtually the only nutrient not found in plants, a fact that's long been known since 1948, when B-12 was found to be the substance in liver that cured pernicious anemia. Fortunately, vegans don't have to be buffaloed by the red meat lobby into chowing down on red meat, with its load of calories, saturated fat, and cholesterol, because there's plenty of vitamin B-12—6 micrograms—in a standard multivitamin. Not only that, but Vitamin B-12 is cumulative (that's why it's so concentrated in liver meat): "By age fifty most of us have accumulated enough B-12 in our lives to keep us going for years." - Harvard School of Public Health's Eat Drink and Be Healthy, p. 165. Even if you somehow became a strict vegan but refused to take a daily multivitamin, bread and cereals in developed nations are routinely fortified with B vitamins, including B-12 just in case. You don't see people walking around with pernicious anemia, you do see them staggering under burgeoning rolls of fat. The idiocy of scaring people into buying red meat over fear of missing out on a microscopic amount of a nutrient already readily available in a generic multivitamin and cereals is another sign of just how dumbed-down our national conversation has become.
7th DAY ADVENTISTS. . long lived(longer than even Mormons)and they are VEGANS.
maybe their THEOLOGY suggests BRAIN DAMAGE, however.