Meanwhile, the event is also being liveblogged by Alex Massie and the crew over at Culture11. Let the games begin . . .
10:30 After running ahead for most of the debate, the Sarah Palin has now fallen narrowly behidn on most of the analyst scoring. Suspect last impressions are most important. I sure can't remember what we were talking about an hour ago.
10:28 Gwen Ifill asks if there's a time when they've been forced to change their mind about a policy issue. Suspect she ran out of time and started copying questions out of Human Resources for Dummies.
10:26 After this election, I am going to have to hit myself in the head with a small hammer to get the monotonous thrum of the word "maverick" out of my head.
10:24 Joe Biden too, offers for the "Rambling Grandpa" style of response. Still waiting for him to say that he's too much of a perfectionist, or has trouble delegating.
10:21 Not content with the earlier blather, Gwen Ifill actually asks them what their greatest weakness is. Sarah Palin rambles about how great America is. Has she forgotten the question? Because I'm having trouble remembering what we're supposed to be talking about. The persuadables, however, love it. On topic responses are for weaklings!
10:17 Gwen Ifill says "The constitution might give the Vice President more power than that office has had in the past". Is this some sort of Zen Koan whose intricate mysteries will be unveiled only after years of reflection?
10:14 Sarah Palin name checks, like, every teacher in the United States, including Biden's wife, in talking about the future of American education. The crowd goes wild.
10:12 Joe Biden says, in re economic problems, "All you have to do is walk into Home Depot with me, where I spend a lot of time . . . " Me Big Man! Me Like Big Power tools! Did I mention I have some REALLY big tools?
I thought that was Joe Biden I saw regrouting the Capital Hill masonry last week . . .
10:11 I take it back--Palin boldly says they disagree about ANWR, and uses it to press the idea that she pushes McCain on the issue and he's never asked her to check her opinions at the door. Then she launches into laudatory blather, similar to Biden's. Both sets of blather poll really, really well.
10:09 Gwen Ifill asks how a Biden administration would be different from an Obama administration. This is an interesting question, but it's pointless, like asking interviewees to name their biggest flaw. All they're going to do is reiterate how awesome their candidate is.
10:00 Joe Biden: "John McCain voted against the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty that every Republican supported". I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think the math is off somewhere . . .
9:59 Is she mispronouncing Kim Jong Il's name, or am I?
9:57 Palin loves Israel too! Big hugs for Israel! I'm waiting for one of them to break into Havah Negillah.
9:55 Biden claims that this administration's Israel policy has been an abject failure. Unlike, you know, all those earlier presidents who found simple and effective resolutions to the conflict.
9:50 Once again, Iran bashing is much more popular than Iraq. Time to throw out that tatty old war you've been wearing for years and get something new, stylish, now.
9:45 The incestuous nature of this race is causing problems for everyone. Joe Biden has to deal with the fact that he and Obama are from opposite wings of their party, and hence have fired a bunch of pot shots at each other--I'm reminded of the line about Lloyd Bentsen (
9:42 Iraq is clearly a losing issue for McCain; merely saying that he wants to win tanks the ratings. The winning issue appears to be gay marriage and hating on bankers. It is, however, one of the few issues where she does better with men.
9:41 Joe Biden's political differences with Obama start to hurt, as she uses his words against Obama's votes on the matter.
9:40 How come Sarah Palin gets more highly rated for being against gay marriage than Joe Biden does? Neither of them said anything that was either controversial, or particularly different from the other.
9:38 Joe Biden just claimed that the right of same sex partners to visit their partners in a hospital is in the constitution. I'm all for gay marriage and all, but I'm pretty sure that the Founding Fathers didn't put that in there, or even intend to.
9:34 Palin scores big points on anthropogenic global warming by saying that it's less important to argue about the cause than to talk about a solution. Biden is still spewing statistics trying to recover what should have been a slam dunk topic for him. Not sure why, as they're both offering the same ridiculous
9:33 In general, Palin is the much more volatile candidate. There have been a few times when her ratings have plummeted, but she has also achieved much higher highs.
9:32 Oh, she's back up, with a reference to energy independence. This is, of course, completely stupid; short of autarky, there's no way to keep the effects of foreign oil from hitting America's economy, because our trading partners will continue to use a lot of it. But it is popular.
9:30 Palin keeps relentlessly dragging the topic back to energy. It played well the first few times, but now the "persuadables" seem to think she's trying to bs the final exam.
9:28 Every time Palin mentions John McCain her otherwise pretty positive ratings plummet. The interesting thing is, however, that this seems to be the only point at which the men like her more than the women.
9:26 The women voters being polled are, overall, generally more positive about both candidates. But the difference is much more noticeable when Sarah Palin is speaking. Who's being sexist--the men or the women?
9:24 Sarah Palin comes back with her own snotty remarks about Barack Obama voting for the 2005 energy bill. Snotty is not polling well this evening.
9:22 Gwen Ifill asks, as Lehrer did of the presidential candidates, what plans the candidates are prepared to give up on in order to finance the current problem fixes. Joe Biden's answer: we might have to slow down on doubling foreign aid. Are the American people really prepared for this kind of fiscal sacrifice, Senator? Oh, also, cutting wasteful spending! We're saved!
9:18 Joe Biden is moving into full throated contempt mode. The look on his face when Sarah Palin talked about being a member of the middle class all her life was one of the most condescending things I've ever seen, and he starts off his rebuttal with a fairly snotty-sounding "I don't even know where to start". I suspect this was a bad mistake.
9:13 Don't forget to play Sarah Palin bingo! I believe there are also Biden Bingo cards, but no need, really; just give yourself a point every time he complains about financial deregulation without mentioning that he has been one of its most consistent proponents, not to mention the abysmal giveaway to the credit card companies that was the 2005 Bankruptcy Reform. Everyone's a winner!
9:11 Sarah Palin's popularity goes off the charts when she complains that predatory lenders persuaded people to borrow money to buy $300,000 houses when they could only afford $100,000. Apparently, Sarah Palin voters are too stupid to figure how much house they can afford.
9:08 Sarah Palin winks at the camera. I didn't believe it the first time I saw it; thank god for TiVo. I think all three million viewers are supposed to come up to her hotel room with a bottle of champagne after the debate.
9:06 Sarah Palin is visibly nervous, but actually doing very well on her first question. CNN once again has its "persuadable" voter EKG, which lets them express how they feel about the debate at any given time, and then averages then into a running graph of the voter mood. They like her a lot . . . right up until the point where she mentions John McCain. This strikes me as a slight problem for the campaign.
9:05 Joe Biden launches immediately into complaining that the current mess is all the fault of the Bush administration. Number one, this is not true. Number two, is there any more exquisite irony than watching Senator Joe Biden (D-MBNA) complain about financial deregulation?
9:03 Sarah Palin starts off strong by marching out in a really fetching black suit and perkily asking Joe Biden if she can call him Joe. Score one for Miss Moose Shooting America 2008.
Two comments:
1) Any candidate that mentions an "ordinary person" by name loses points in my book. Biden's down by one so far.
2) Sarah Palin will lose points every time she says "Darn right!" Down by three now, I think.
Joe Biden launches immediately into complaining that the current mess is all the fault of the Bush administration.
Who let Lehman fail? Paulson and Bernanke. Who vetoes extending unemployment benefits? Bush.
Biden thinks people who speculated on houses they couldn't afford shold get their payments AND principle reduced? God, I sure am glad I've always been fiscally conservative.
They like her a lot . . . right up until the point where she mentions John McCain. This strikes me as a slight problem for the campaign.
For Palin, this might be a feature rather than a bug. If she can blame her poor showing on McCain and her McCain-related handlers, she might get out of this without total destruction of her political brand.
I'm not sure which debate you're watching Megan McArdle, but Sen. Biden appears to be the more respectful debater. I just can't get over the derisive smile on Palin's face. She won't even look at Biden.
Then again, maybe "Joe Six Pack" will look at this favorably.
Is Palin wearing an Israeli flag pin above her American flag pin?
re: gay marriage
Palin gets favorables from the large group of anti-gay marriage republican leaners and anti-gay indepedants.
Biden probably does not get favorables from anti-gay republican leaners, only independants plus a probably much smaller group of anti-gay democratic leaners. Liberals (like me) want Biden to support it outright.
Thus, his favorables there are lower.
I'm reminded of the line about Lloyd Bentsen (Mondale's VP, for the young or forgetful)
Which are you? ;)
Granted, Dukakis was rather forgettable.
It's a Blue Star pin, for the parents of those serving combat duty.
"9:38 Joe Biden just claimed that the right of same sex partners to visit their partners in a hospital is in the constitution. I'm all for gay marriage and all, but I'm pretty sure that the Founding Fathers didn't put that in there, or even intend to."
How about "No State shall... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." (14th Amd.).
If a state only recognizes heterosexual marriages, and requires hospitals to allow spouses to visit each other in the hospital, doesn't that deny homosexuals equal protection of a law?
And no, the Founding Fathers didn't put that in there, nor did they intend to. Fortunately our Constitution can be amended and has been.
It's a Blue Star pin, for the parents of those serving combat duty.
Thank you, Aaron. I've never seen one before.
Why isn't she wearing an Israeli flag pin? Suspicious...
As horrible as Palin is, she's pretty much as horrible as George Bush, Jr. But remember, Kerry might have been worse! Thanks again, pseudo-libertarians!
I just turned the debate off. Both of these candidates are absolutely horrid. I feel dumber for having watched the first hour. Seriously, I think my brain is numb.
"[Biden's wife's] reward is in heaven."
What a great thing to say to a widower.
Megan, you are extremely ugly and partisan. You should stick to economics, because you're political leanings disgust anyone with an ounce of humanity
Not that this sort of thing matters in this day and age...but doesn't it look like Joe Biden has horns? I'm just sayin'.
It's a Blue Star pin, for the parents of those serving combat duty.
It's not just Megan, it's the whole world, but why do livebloggers always make me read bottom to top?
If you were expecting rope-a-dope from Palin, I really gotta score some of that fever you've got. Is that the new Peruvian one going around?
I'm pretty sure Biden is sporting a spray-on comb over.
And the superficial, partisan slide to irrelevance continues...
Whichever candidate wins, I really, really, really hope they don't die in office.
I'm hardly a persuadable voter, but my strong impression was that a Palin administration would be government-by-flashcard. And I don't think her chipper Janie-One-Note delivery will go over well given that times are, you know, not good right now.
Biden's faux populism and "regular guy" schtick wears thin.
The man's been in DC since 1973 for C-sake! How many financial messes has he presided over? He ought to be the master at fixes, but instead, continues to push pork like no tomorrow.
The two-party c-f*ck wearies me.
Most exciting moment of evening--caller to CSPAN says she's voting third-party (for Nader).
That's where I'm leaning, as the evil of two lessers is no longer an option.
This debate convinced me that Obama believes in prayer. Forget Roe v. Wade and gay marriage; I'm going to look into novenas for Obama's health if Biden becomes VP. Such a Willy Loman this guy is; 'once I had a family and a dad and now it's gone; it never leaves my mind and I am bereft and lost' is where this guy is when he is not generously spending Exxon's profit on some family who can't pay for Exxon's heating oil.
As a finance lawyer, gotta say that I'm (a) disappointed at the intensity of the Huey Long populist crap -- a little, expected nay justified, but this is bullshit, (b) voting democrat, on the theory that the Republicans have been giving a clinic for eight years on how power corrupts, Obama and company are alot smarter than the admittedly horrid members of their base and dammit, if cheap populism is going to be embraced by both parties, I'm going with the cheap populism that is socially acceptable at Manhattan dinner parties, (c) thinking that the shattered remnants of Wall Street, and corporations in general, should probably be rethinking this whole political contribution and lobbying thing. When we really needed them, they clearly hadn't listened to all the staff briefings and legitimate lobbying efforts, and generally we were left looking like Stringer Bell to Clay Davis (wire reference). We'd have been a hell of alot better off buying more programs on PBS and building more municipal parks in Ohio and sponsoring more baseball stadiums than going through K Street.
So what we get out of the VP debate is that the media has, by playing partisan politics, done the McCain camp another accidental favor. The previous attempts to play "gotcha" with Palin had set everyone's expectations for her sufficiently low that when she got this platform -- one with a relatively affable opponent, and for which she had time to research and rehearse -- she came out looking far better than anyone had hoped for.
The amazing law of unintended consequences strikes again.
so, did you just skip over Palin's expressed desire to "exert power" over the Senate if she is VP? And her stated approval of the secretive, unaccountable, power-wielding approach to the Vice Presidency that Dick Cheney has brought us?
That's really the only news of the evening. Palin want's to disregard the constitutional separation of powers, declare the VP office to be part of the legislature, somehow exert power over the Senate and expand on the other powers Cheney has exerted.
Yeah, that will sell well. If the Obama campaign plays clips of those comments, along with the clip of McCain stating he always wanted to be dictator and the clips of McCain admitting to lying for the sake of ambition, there won't be a single state turning their electoral votes over them.
They're intellectually dishonest, disrespectful and power-seeking. Great. Just what we need more of.
As much as I'm hesitant to make such a statement, your entry here proves why it's best a free one. Many of my politically uninterested students could come up with more astute observations. I'm starting to think you're as intellectually tone-deaf as Ross and as self-contained as Andrew. I don't want to believe those things, as many of your assessments on economy are quite good; but this entry compels me to question your value as an assessor, in even casual regard, of Serious Events. I guess I hoped for sharper analysis from someone of otherwise sharp mind. Instead you relied on prattle and palaver.
Megan, Ifill only said the thing about the VP's powers because she was directly quoting what Palin had said earlier, and asking her to clarify.
I think she did ok. Nothing as bad as the Couric interview. I was a little surprised at her gay rights answer. She basically said that she was going as far as Biden was with same-sex benefits. Is that going to cause problems with the anti-gay right or has gay bashing finally gone out of style?
I noticed too that women generally din't like her as much. My wife, who hates politics but nevertheless sat through this debate, turned to me and said "women don't really like women". I think the strategy of capturing female Hillary supporters by just tossing a woman on the ticket isn't going to work. Hillary earned her support among women. Palin does have appeal to conservatives and she is spunky which is something for conservatives to cling too since this is a pretty depressing year for them.
I thought Palin mouthed the right things but she was missing substance. She knows all the points to hit to fill up the time (America good, Israel good, Wall Street greed bad (BTW, do any conservatives feel uncomfortable that blaming the financial crises on greed and Wall Street big wigs is now considered the official position of the right wing candidate?), Iran bad, working families good.....hard to make ends meet, gotta do better on education) but she didn't seem like she knew them. If you sat Biden down and said what's wrong with education you imagine he could give you lots of details about no child left behind and other things....Palin, I think, would just keep spinning "education is important, education is something we must do better on"...
You'd never know it from this Pallin apologist's blog that views overwhelmingly thought Biden won.
I was not impressed with Palin's performance. She kept dodging the questions to repeat her talking points. She was so repetitive, eventually I couldn't help tuning her out. So I stopped watching early. Did I miss the best part or something?
Yes, Palin did better than I expected after everything I'd heard about the Couric interview. And I admit, I don't know enough about Biden's political career to judge any contradictions he made. But from what I saw, Biden was the winner, hands down.
"I was a little surprised at her gay rights answer. She basically said that she was going as far as Biden was with same-sex benefits."
I'm pretty sure what she meant was that gay people can do all these things with contracts. This is a sentiment many conservatives say even if they oppose civil unions. Most gay rights people dispute that and many even consider it anti-gay.
The "I hate gay people and I'm going to say that in public" element of the Right is really quite small even among churchgoing Protestants. Or at least it's much smaller than many on the Left would believe and is mostly limited to men.
Perhaps but she could have gone after Biden big time when he said that same sex couples were no different from opposite sex couples.
I think so far the consensus view is that she made no major fumbles but Biden more or less won the debate. If she had been as bad as the Couric interview, McCain would have needed to have considered dropping her (and I don't think the right could stop him if that had happened). That's def. not going to happen now but I think she is still a net minus to McCain
"Palin want's to disregard the constitutional separation of powers, declare the VP office to be part of the legislature"
Read the Constitution. It says explicitly that the job of the VP is to be the president of the Senate. Biden is pretty good at spouting nonsense in a confident way, making you think he knows what he's talking about.
The Persuadable Vote EKG is repulsive. It plays with the minds of the watchers. Let us watch the debate ourselves.
"I think so far the consensus view is that she made no major fumbles but Biden more or less won the debate." - huh? Consensus of whom? Palin is currently 70%/28% ahead in the Drudge Report. And she had much more to lose. All the stories of her incompetence have been dragging McCain down for a couple of weeks now.
I thought Biden was pretty clear on the VP's role per the Constitution. He is only a legislator in the sense that he is the tie breaking vote in the Senate & presides overit. Cheney's theory that he is immune from checks on the Executive branch because he is really a legislator is wrong.
I think it was also clear Biden knew why the moderator was asking this question. Palin seemed like she was just being quized on the various powers of the VP per the Constitution....
Consensus of whom? Palin is currently 70%/28%
Well Intrade isn't reporting any major movement in McCain's favor. The focus group tracking CNN did with the lines seemed to average higher for Biden than Palin (does CNN ever release that raw data so we can calculate averages off of it?) and several post election polls seem to say most people think Biden won but Palin was better than expected.
I personally believe Palin absolutely destroyed in this debate.
Numbers, statistics, "you voted on this", that doesn't matter in these debates at all. For every "you voted against Obama on *such and such*", you can retort with "well you voted against McCain on *such and such*". Obama voted to raise taxes 94.57 times! Well McCain voted to not fund the troops 2.36 times! Both of them probably have a mental library of over 1000 cases where they can bring stuff like that up. It doesn't matter. What matters is when and how you bust it out.
What DOES matter is that Palin was the one throwing the punches, throwing the rhetoric around, and basically commanding the debate. Biden was throwing too many numbers around, too many votes, too many names, too many lists. That is just BAD form. It is impressive at first, but boring by the half hour mark. He wasn't willing to pull the trigger on Palin when she threw around great keywords like the "white surrender" or the "redistribution of wealth" (I LOVED that one). One of her greatest moments, however phony it may be, was when she was asked about that one time where she signed something in office that she didn't really 100% agree with. I thought she was trapped, especially after Biden rambled some incoherent answer about his "fault". She comes out with the "I wanted to cut taxes more, but the bill just wouldn't let me" response, which was GREAT.
Although Palin did as well, I thought also (or at least the way I interpreted) that Biden made some verbal blunders that he didn't really mean that were of more importance. I'm pretty sure when asked about the large mortgage crisis he said something to the effect of "Well really, only 10% are really affected by this crisis". Regardless of whether it's true or false, he basically called a bunch of American people whiners. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just going off of what I remember. Also at one point he said regarding Afghanistan that the commanding chief needed more troops, more etc. He was trying to argue about why a failed Iraq policy wouldn't work there, yet basically he was implying that an even BIGGER surge is what is needed in Afghanistan (something that probably you would vote Republican for). And don't make me out to be some Palin lover. I really don't like her, at all, but she didn't make NEARLY as many important verbal mistakes because when she was posed a tough question, she weaseled out of it like the best of politicians.
Debates to me at least are all about style because each party always has a list 1,000 points long of faults that they can just throw back at each other. And when there are that many, it basically makes your stance on something essentially worthless, and the only thing you have to rely on is style and how you get your point across. To me, Palin blew it out of the water.
Also, forgot to add, these debates are PURELY for the undecideds. Anybody who wants Obama/Biden, will probably think Biden won, and the same on the other side. I'm pretty sure Palin convinced more than Biden the undecideds (and probably some Hilary voters) to vote Republican.
The best way would be to find a poll of independents or undecideds and their reaction, but that's tough to find. I guess we'll see when some more early poll data comes out.
She got noticeably better as time passed. Like Megan said, she was clearly nervous at the start. Once she got comfortable, she was passable. Her "hockey mom" schtick was annoying, and she says "nucular" like GWB. But she didn't make any major mistakes that I could see offhand, and that has to count as a positive outcome. Biden still was clearly the better candidate.
Yeah, and it says that in the section establishing the Executive Branch. Presiding over the Senate doesn't make you part of the Legislative Branch. It just means you get to sit in the chair and bang the gavel; and Biden was correct when he said the only vote the VP gets is to break a tie. When the Senate can't decide, the VP gets to cast the Executive's vote. The VP doesn't get to submit legislation or enter into debates or serve on committees, as far as I know. He is just the representative of the Executive Branch.
Don't lose sight of where this whole issue came from. This was all about Cheney not wanting to be subject to the record-keeping and transparency requirements covering the Executive Branch. He wanted to be able to claim that his papers and communications were covered by the less-transparent Congressional requirements, so he could ignore requests under the rules governing the Executive Branch. That's all this was about.
Really? I think that's a little overblown. She did OK, she didn't screw up, she didn't choke. But I don't think she "destroyed" Biden.
Too much information? Was Biden too knowledgeable for your taste? (98% in one post-debate poll found Biden "knowledgeable," compared to 66% for Palin.) Don't bother me with boring facts, wow me with "rhetoric" and "throwing punches" (something I thought Palin didn't do too much of, and did rather timidly with one or two exceptions). Palin hardly "commanded the debate."
How can a "great moment" be "phony?" And I thought Palin's big attribute was how "authentic" and down-home folksy she was, an unscripted "straight-talker." How can she be all that and yet be "phony?"
I agree, she didn't choke. So she's a phony straight-talking maverick weasel politician, who is trying to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency.
I'm pretty sure, or at least for the sake of the country I hope, you're wrong on that.
Mike C
Except if you watched the lines Palin bombed whenever she was talking about Iraq....and while the 'white flag of surrender' is a verbal punch it really didn't make sense. Why is saying we are leaving Iraq in 16 months a surrender? Most people agree Iraq should take care of itself and it's time to go home. She threw the punch but to make it land she needed to connect the dots and show why leaving is surrendering but that doesn't mean we have to be there foreever. To make that connection you need to demonstrate a pretty good command of the subject and she lacks that.
I felt like the 'voting not to fund the troops' was effectively countered by Biden as Obama did in his debate. Her command of the facts was again called into question when instead of counter that counterattack she just kept repeating it. I thought Biden/Obama's counter point was on target...Again you need to have command of the facts to explain why McCain's vote against funding shouldn't count against him while Obama's should.
As for Biden's 'whiners' thing....I thought both of them did more than enough sucking up to whining....I'm tired of the endless speeches about how hard working we are, how it's so hard to make ends meet etc. Yes yes I do put gas in my tank and pay bills each month.
She had rhetoric but I think that's it. You knew if you pushed under the rhetoric you wouldn't find much and even after an hour and a half it wears (Ohhh yes John McCain and his ticket of Mavericks!)
Enjoyed your liveblog (which I read this morning) very much, Ms. McArdle.
If you sat Biden down and said what's wrong with education you imagine he could give you lots of details about no child left behind and other things....Palin, I think, would just keep spinning "education is important, education is something we must do better on"...
Both, however, would be equally unable to improve education.
Didn't you object - even linking in a subsequent post - to my comment that predatory lending practices contributed to this mess, and then explain (convincingly (to my mind, anyway)) why I was wrong? Is Palin making the same mistake, or is there a nuance that I am missing?
Dr J writes:
"... but this entry compels me to question your value as an assessor, in even casual regard, of Serious Events."
"Serious Events?" Please... this debate is nothing more than political theater. Megan's tone is perfectly appropriate for the occasion.
"How come Sarah Palin gets more highly rated for being against gay marriage than Joe Biden does? Neither of them said anything that was either controversial, or particularly different from the other."
I think it's obvious. People believed Palin accurately describes her real opinion. People don't believe that Biden accurately describes his position.
I don't think it matters whether you are for gay marriage or not, most people believe that Democrats are dissembling when they claim to not be for gay marriage.
The woman is phenomenal. Talk about a learning curve, five weeks in and the hopes of the RNC rest on Sarah Palin at the VP debate, no thanks to Katie Couric. Sarah knocks it out of the ballpark; again. There is however something I'd like to point out about Democratic politicians. Something they do with increasing regularity. I'm sure you've noticed. Now if you don't like Bozo the clown, if you feel that he is a particularly bad clown and bad for the country, why then don a Bozo wig, a pair of size 14 shoes, and a rubber nose whenever denouncing Bozo? If there is an official uniform of the president, it's the pastel blue tie, white shirt, and dark suit first popularized by George W. Bush. The color scheme comes from the presidential flag, and no other American president made those colors his distinctive style before George W. Bush. In 2004, Bill Clinton even had his presidential portrait painted wearing George W's signature garb. Although the 1960 Kennedy vs. Nixon debate was televised in black & white, people still talk about the significance color played during that election. But, there’s no confusion to this day about which candidate wore what. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And, the fashion police have long memories. Ms. Palin dressed for and aced the debate. Note: before railing against Bozo, please try not to emulate Bozo. It makes one look like a Bozo: http://theseedsof9-11.com
"That's def. not going to happen now but I think she is still a net minus to McCain"
I'm leaning towards thinking she's net neutral. She might lose him a little with undecideds, but gain him a little with Republican turnout. This probably not as good as he hoped, but worse than he feared.
Among the fairer criticisms of the debate is that she likely dug herself out of a hole more than she helped him. She expelled some worries, but probably didn't gain many to the ticket who hadn't leaned that way before. So the election goes back to being about McCain vs Obama and so far that means advantage Obama to the voters.
I actually think Palin didn't know what an Achilles Heel was.
Otherwise she would have at least attempted a pivot.
The thing that bothers me the most about her, is that she glories in being ignorant, she is proud of being stupid, and is constantly IQ-baiting.
Here is somemore greek for you Ms. Palin.
olbos, khoros, hubris, ate
Looks like I was right, Biden won:
Survey USA Biden 51% Palin 32
MedicaCurves Biden 67-33
AOL (nonscientific) 48-45
MSNBC site (nonscientific) 78.6-18.9
CNN 46-21
CBS 46-21
Fox 61-39
CBS said of uncommitted voters 18% said they would opt for Obama and 10% for Palin. That means Palin's performance was a net negative to McCain, it just wasn't as negative as it could have been if it was, like, the Couric interview.
GirondistNYC. The fact that the R ticket has adopted the populist attitutde is the heart of the problem. Obama has taken McCain prisoner with blaming the financial crisis 'on the last 8 years of the Bush administtration which John McCain would continue.' In fact as is well discussed in comments in a succeeding blogpost: 'McCain and lobbyist shame,' the Dems have enormous responsibility due to their GSEs and the CRA. There isn't going to be any glory in JM beng taken prisoner this time.