This is a pretty great day to be living in a heavily black neighborhood. Obviously, a lot of people are excited about this election. But being here is a lot like what I imagine my relatives experienced being in West Roxbury in 1960. There's a holiday festivity to the area that I doubt I'd be seeing even on my own beloved Upper West Side.
Whether or not you are for Obama, the candidate, I think you have to admit that there is one pretty exciting thing happening today: we will never again live in an America where a black man can't be elected president. It's a great day for all of us--the thought really does thrill me every time I think it, even though I know I'm going to hate an awful lot of his policymaking. But it's especially great for those who were, in earlier days, barred from that sort of achievement.
In the 1920s, Al Smith ran for president and lost, because America couldn't have an Irish Catholic president. Irish Americans made a lot of strides away from "No Irish Need Apply" and 19th century images depicting us as drunken apes. But Kennedy's election was The Moment; that's when we knew we'd won. No, anti-Irish and anti-Catholic prejudice didn't suddenly disappear one fall day in 1960, but we, and they, knew that the holdouts were ceasing to matter. And in the early 1990s, when a doddering customer at a hotel I worked at changed my name to "Millie" because I reminded her of her childhood maid, and told her friends that (I swear I'm not making this up) "the Irish don't care about their names like we do" it was a hilarious anachronism, rather than a slap in the face.
Black history in America has had a lot more Big Moments than the Irish did. But this is a shining one. That's a beautiful silver lining even if you think a liberal Democrat in office is a pretty gloomy cloud.
Copyright © 2010 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Millie,
Your optimism is a shining example of the positive side of the Irish. Don't let the whiskey ruin it!
Megan, why don't you go delete the last sentence? You already said in the middle, and you spoil the sentiment by repeating the right-wing dribble.
It's a beautiful day. We're electing a spectacular man to be president. He's part Kenyan, part Kansan. And he's filling many hearts with joy, hearts that didn't feel hope of fully participating in the American dream. Some of those folks are African American, but some are Latino, some are Asian, some are Polish, and some are even Irish. Many don't even live in the USA, they live in other countries and are finding a renewed hope and a renewed dream in the promise of the freedoms this country represents.
So don't spoil it with the dribble. Just hope, at least for today.
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/barack_obama_/2008/11/no_ones_as_irish_as_barack_obama.php
Mark Kleiman posted: "Apparently it's true: one of Obama's mother's ancestors came from Moneygall, Co. Offaly."
So there it is, Millie - you are for this guy because of ethnic solidarity!
After I voted early this morning, I passed an interracial couple standing by their car in the parking lot, hugging each other and almost in tears. I have many interracial couples in my circle of friends, but I don't think I fully appreciated until that moment how tiring it can be to live through a lifetime of double-takes, raised eyebrows, and the occasional outright racist. And how absolutely wonderful it must feel to have an openly interracial man running for President, and have the large majority of the country perfectly OK with that.
So, I shouted "Happy Election Day!" to them, got into my car, and sniffled through the next three stoplights.
Good riddance to that "drunken ape" stereotype.
I'm pretty sure you'd be much more like a drunken giraffe, anyway - graceful, up to a point, and infinitely entertaining.
In complete agreement on that silver lining bit - not the candidate I wanted, but nevertheless a very cheering milestone.
Megan,
Do you really need to add the standard addendum to your posts about how you're going to hate a lot of Obama's policies?
I presume you hated a lot of George W. Bush's policies. I presume that libertarians generally hate a lot of the policies of either party when those respective parties are in power. Isn't that practically a by-definition state of affairs for libertarians?
In other words, think of it this way. If Obama wins, won't you be pleased to have an intelligent, articulate, thoughtful President in the White House? That's already a major step forward. And I would hope he'll surprise you with reasoned decision making - though that's exactly what I expect from him and would be distraught if it's not the case.
Cheers,
Um,
"No Irish Need Apply" was a myth. MOAR fact checking please.
"we will never again live in an America where a black man can't be elected president."
Actually, we haven't lived in that America for a long time. Just because one wasn't elected does not mean one couldn't be.
Given the quality of the present "field" of candidates, I'm reminded of a quote by H.L. Mencken:
"When a candidate for public office faces the voters he does not face men of sense; he faces a mob of men whose chief distinguishing mark is the fact that they are quite incapable of weighing ideas, or even of comprehending any save the most elemental — men whose whole thinking is done in terms of emotion, and whose dominant emotion is dread of what they cannot understand. So confronted, the candidate must either bark with the pack or be lost... All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
Yeah, I guess that nice in a some way but I'm color blind.
I hope the brew of context, current make-up of the houses and his judgment where needs to have good judgment make Obama a "good president".
While I don't agree with a lot of Obama's confidence in certain public policy measures, I think his heart is in the right place and that he will proceed with caution and some semblance of independence on key matters.
I feel good about his views on foreign policy and hope he picks good cabinet members. And while I don't agree with many of economic policy stances, I do take heart in the fact that he at least seems prudent and cautious about economic principles concerning incentives and fundamental market process. I don't expect him to an economic illiterate bull in a room full of delicate china.
That's a good thing. If you're going to believe in the potential of intervention, at least prudent about it and listen to good advice. And I think he will do that.
Will it still be a "pretty great day to be living in a heavily black neighborhood" if Obama ends up losing?
I'm not buying it. It seems pretty obvious that had Colin Powell been on the ballot 8 years ago, he would have won in a landslide.
It would have been better in a couple of ways: He is a man of accomplishment and a moderate. Versus what we got; little accomplishment so far and outside the mainstream.
In effect, whatever the outcome today, it will be a setback for race relations. If he looses, it is because he is too young, inexperienced and liberal--African americans will see the reason as racism. If he wins, it will be clear and obvious that no person of pallor with such a thin resume and leftist credentials would even be nominated, let alone elected. Presto! Our first affirmative action president.
"Many don't even live in the USA, they live in other countries and are finding a renewed hope and a renewed dream in the promise of the freedoms this country represents."
... and you're the one chastising Megan for "dribble"?
More like they're finding "a renewed hope and a renewed dream in the promise of" more handouts of the American taxpayer's money by "citizen of the world" Obama.
"little accomplishment so far and outside the mainstream."
So far outside the mainstream that he will receive a majority of the vote. How can the majority of voters be outside the mainstream?
I believe Senator Obama is going to win, but the "counting chickens ...." seems to apply
Megan, where do you vote? I assume farther north (if it's a black neighborhood), but the line at the Jewish Guild on 65th was the longest I've ever seen it.
staash, I presume you're native american? you're family didn't come here from other places on the basis of hope and dreams?
biggest welfare payment i've seen was to wall street, to the free market conservatives.
Of course, if President Obama does a horrible job, or masses of voters disapprove of his administration for the next few decades, then it will set back the cause for candidates of color. (Same thing could apply to Sarah Palin).
"Of course, if President Obama does a horrible job, or masses of voters disapprove of his administration for the next few decades, then it will set back the cause for candidates of color. (Same thing could apply to Sarah Palin)."
Yes, but odds are better that people will hold him in high regard despite a horrible performance because of his race.
"biggest welfare payment i've seen was to wall street, to the free market conservatives."
Newsflash for you: there are probably more Democrats working on Wall Street than Republicans. The big money in this election is behind Obama.
The prejudice against the Irish has always confused me. Desperately lonely, self-medicating WASPs think the Irish have an alcohol problem?
Of course I married a Murphy, so what do I know?
"Of course, if President Obama does a horrible job, or masses of voters disapprove of his administration for the next few decades, then it will set back the cause for candidates of color."
Not necessarily. JFK just barely won and then he got killed. In things like this "making it" does matter whether you succeed or fail. I'm sure at least one of the first black kids to go to a "white school" in the South led an unexceptional, or even failed, life. Opening the door matters.
That said I voted for McCain. I'm not going to vote for a relatively untested new Senator who supports things I can't tolerate. If I'd been around in 1960 I probably would've voted for Nixon and I'm Catholic.
What Dan said: we haven't lived in that America for a long time. The difference today is that lot of people will no longer be able to deny it.
If that applies to you Staash, then it would almost be worth four years of a McCain presidency (with Palin serving three years and ten months) if it meant you were the neighborhood bitch for one magical evening.
"little accomplishment so far and outside the mainstream."
So far outside the mainstream that he will receive a majority of the vote. How can the majority of voters be outside the mainstream?
Posted by rick | November 4, 2008 11:21 AM
rick, I think you have completly missed my point. For lots of people (probably enough) the symbolism of electing our first black president overrides the fact that he is unqualified and far to the left of most americans.
Yeah, there are a lot of myths surrounding Myth's defeat. He carried solid Democratic south states and lost his homestate of New York despite controlling a massive urban machine. This is in part because throughout the mid-west were rather supportive of prohibition and feared urban political machines, but more importantly it was that his opponent was Herbert Hoover, a national celebrity.
The world was far better off that Hoover won. Smith's politics on economic issues differed very litle from Hoover, and that - as well as personal spite - was a reason Smith so adamantly opposed FDR throughout the 1930s. Had Smith won, we may have been saddled with Hoover throughout the 1930s, but maybe that political goodwill would have created many of the same reforms we saw in the 1930s.
If Obama loses, I'd get out of that black neighborhood ASAP and stay out until the rioting is over.
"If Obama loses, I'd get out of that black neighborhood ASAP and stay out until the rioting is over."
I'd get out of that neighborhood ASAP either way. Blacks have been known to riot when their teams win.
Ditto the silver lining. Just wish it was, oh, Dr. Walter Williams that broke through. Next up, a woman president and, one hopes, a smaller government, non-interventionist, free market, tolerant type.
Fred,
You admitted once before you're part black; why do you hate yourself so much?
Uh, Fred? Most of the sports riots I've seen involved drunk white college kids.
Boston Red Sox, 2004: http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1207197578056641436bdmKTe
New England Patriots, 2004: http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1115543962053551280EDmHHe
I know you're a troll, but could we have at least a little contact with reality?
Katherine,
Google up some NBA championship riots.
The rest of you:
Bear in mind that a President Obama would be the most powerful president we've had in a long time. In addition to having Dems in charge of both houses of Congress, he'd have the press in his pocket. Who would risk charges of racism for criticizing him about anything?
What a mess.
Amen, Sister Megan: The line around Garnett-Patterson School here in the 'hood was long and festive today. It made me proud to live here.
Amen, Sister Megan: The line around Garnett-Patterson School here in the 'hood was long and festive today. It made me proud to live here.
Oops! Put this in the wrong thread...
I think the very fact that large numbers of people are crying or celebrating or whatever says something negative. Either the government is too damn big and intrusive (such that the outcome of the election really is that important) or the people doing the emoting are overly invested in what are, after all, mere mortals, and politicians at that.
Either way, I'd prefer an apathetic citizenry who don't have to worry about what the government might do if the "wrong" candidate winds and who choose to invest their spiritual energy in something actually productive like raising children or feces-themed "art."
Sports rioting is not about race.
Thanks.
The lines at the polling place on 92nd Street, between CPW and Columbus, were very long this morning, but had dwindled to zero by late morning. So maybe the long line in the morning reflected municipal incompetence rather than high turnout, I don't know.
As for mood, subdued self-satisfaction is the usual Upper West Side mood. It didn't seem any different today.
(And why shouldn't we be self-satisfied? We're richer than other people, we're smarter, as measured by our academic credentials, and we're morally superior. Note that both Ms. McArdle and I, who aren't quite on board with the political shibboleths of the Upper West Side, do have the same basic attitude.)
Megan,
I don't think being Irish was the big deal for JFK, but being the first Catholic.
"The United States had six presidents before an Irish descendant came to the White House. That was Andrew Jackson, whose parents, Andrew Jackson and Elizabeth Hutchinson, were born in Carrickfergus, County Antrim. His father's father, Hugh Jackson, died in Ireland about 1782. His great grandfather, Thomas Jackson, was from Ballyregan in Dundonald, County Down.
James K. Polk, the 11th president, believed his great-grandfather, William Polk, came from County Donegal and that his great-great grandfather, Robert Pollock, came from the same county. Pollock immigrated to Maryland's Eastern Shore and changed his name to Polk.
The father of the 15th president, James Buchanan, was born in County Donegal about 1761. The mother of the 18th president, Ulysses S. Grant, was the granddaughter of John Simpson, who was born in Northern Ireland about 1738.
The great-great-great grandfather of the 25th president, William McKinley, was born in Ireland in 1705 and immigrated to America. The grandfather of the 28th president, Woodrow Wilson, was born in Strabane, County Down, in 1787.
John F. Kennedy, the 35th president, probably relished his Irish heritage as much as any president. His father's great-grandparents were Patrick Kennedy, born in Dunganstown, County Wexford, about 1823, and Bridget Murphy, born in Owenduff, County Wexford, about 1827. His mother's great grandparents were Thomas Fitzgerald, born in Bruff, County Limerick, in 1823, and Rose Anna Cox, born in County Cavan in 1835.
As recent books have shown, Kennedy and the 37th president, Richard M. Nixon, actually had a secret liking for each other, even though they fought each other for the presidency -- possibly because they shared an Irish heritage. Nixon was descended from James Moore, who was born in Ballymoney, County Antrim, in 1777. Another ancestor, Thomas Milhous, was born in Carrickfergus, County Antrim, in 1699.
The 40th president, Ronald Reagan, also delighted in his Irish roots. His great-grandfather, Michael Reagan, was from County Tipperary, immigrated to Canada and then the United States. Michael's wife, Catherine Mulcahey, was also born in Ireland.
http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/20000317irish9.asp
And there was also Clinton.
Quite frankly I don't understand this sentiment among white folks. I know that someone Megan McCardle's age has had to go through the University indoctrination, but seriously. Why white folks think it is great that blacks, by voting a solid racial block, will get to determine the presidency of a majority white country is beyond me. It takes a special sort of self-loathing to want to see a country that was basically founded by white folks turned over, even symbolically, to black rule. For God's sake, look at Haiti.
Quite frankly I don't understand this sentiment among white folks.
And quite frankly, I am rapidly coming to doubt my belief that racism is a weak and fading force in US life give the apparently unlimited supply of cheerful bigots we managed to come up with in these comments.
I mean really, "black rule"? Really? I'm no fan of the racialist sentiments prevalent among black voters either, but come on.
"If Obama loses, I'd get out of that black neighborhood ASAP and stay out until the rioting is over."
I'd get out of that neighborhood ASAP either way. Blacks have been known to riot when their teams win.
Yes, I can certainly see that today heralds the end of racism! How can you people look at yourself in the morning?
Please to note that both the first two paragraphs were quotes. *grumbles at the Atlantic posting code*
While I think it unlikely that Obama loses today, I wouldn't give too long odds on that if I were a bookmaker. I know a lot of white people like to congratulate themselves on how far we have come on racism, but I see no reason to just dismiss the possibility that anywhere from 1 to 5% of the polled population give a completely politically correct answer to the question of who they will vote for today. A 1% Bradley effect will probably not make a difference in the outcome, but at 2 to 3%, it becomes a guessing game. Over 4%, McCain wins. Would 1 out of 10 McCain voters lie to a pollster about voting against the black candidate? It would not surprise me, and Republicans already seem to be more reluctant to answer pollster's questions even in contests between two white candidates (see the exit polls from the last two elections).
My advice for tonight is to watch Indiana (the earliest returns you will get). If McCain doesn't win it by at least 10+ points, then Obama will win comfortably (Bush won IN by 21 in 04).
What I find hilarious are all the comments to the effect of "...he may end up a total suckfest, but at least his heart is in the right place..." and "...he may eventually show his idiocy, but it's so cool that a black man can be president..."
ROFL
I want everyone who says this to think back on their words after four years of the policy you'll get under Obama and a democratically-controlled veto-proof congress.
In fact, it may not take four years.
I'm not saying McCain would be better - I think they both suck.
However, to justify your vote for no other reason than a person's skin color and to celebrate your delight with that decision?
/facepalm
Tom, all of those other Presidents were more properly Scots-Irish. Those counties are in Ulster and their ancestors were Protestants.
Yancey, my gut feeling is that if it happens, it isn't the Bradley effect, but the Bush effect. After the last 8 years, people may not want to admit that they're voting for a Republican. But once in the voting booth...
SG,
Yes, that may be a factor. It is quite surprising how few people I talk to admit to have voted in 2004 at all.
However, I was always struck by how badly Obama overpolled in a lot of the non-southern states during the primaries. If this repeats on a similar scale in states like Ohio and PA today, he will lose the election.
If Obama is elected, over/under on how long it takes for the conventional wisdom to start pointing out the achievement gap between recent African immigrant families and African-Americans descended from slaves? As in "He may have gotten elected, but that doesn't say anything about white people's attitudes towards most black folks..."
Megan, would you care to explain where the asymmetry in your theory of history comes from? Are you a fan of Hegel and Marx's idea of Progress? It seems more plausible to me that attitudes can move in all directions, not just towards your favored outcome.
As the person who suggested that an Obama loss would lead to riots, I don't see the bigotry in my statement, although I do see bigotry in the later suggestion that blacks like to riot more than other ethnic groups.
Given (1) the emotional investment in Obama by many of his supporters, (2) the near certainty with which they view his victory, and (3) the anger they feel over the perceived theft of the 2000 election, I think it is likely that these same people, many of whom happen to be black, are likely to riot if Obama loses.
As in "He may have gotten elected, but that doesn't say anything about white people's attitudes towards most black folks..."
Too late. Charles Ogletree, likely Assistant Attorney General of the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ, has already said that Obama's election won't be proof that whites have moved beyond racism because Obama is biracial.
I have the same feelings as Megan's post. I think back to growing up with pictures of the Kennedys on my wall and the pride my Irish Catholic aunts and uncles always took in JFK's election victory. Growing up in a working class Pennsylvania town, many of my cohort went on to be very successful and I credit that mentality for some of our success. I think Obama's victory today will inspire many young African Americans to similar success as their generation goes through school, and our economy and country will benefit enormously from that in the years ahead. This is a great day.
Brittain33: I note that Cox, Fitzgerald and even Kennedy are also common Scots-Irish names. Many of the Scots Irish probably had more in common with the native Irish than the English. There was an awful lot of intermarriage, a lot of Scots were Catholic, and lots of Scots and Irish Catholics converted, so it's not that easy to distinguish.
On the actual voting, I'm surprised how many of my black friends I've talked to today seem really uncertain that Obama will win. I'll be shocked (shocked!) if he doesn't. I frankly just don't buy that the Bradley effect (today, at least) would be significant - or at least on any level that isn't swamped by (white) people who really want to vote for a black candidate.
Kathryn,
People who really want to vote for a black candidate won't swamp any Bradley effect- those people wouldn't lie to pollsters. Also, it has been argued elsewhere that such an effect might lessen over time, but I wonder about that. Overt racism is less acceptable today than it once was (and this is a good thing), but that very fact might actually increase the number of polling liars.
In any case, we have a real life experiment running today that should allow solid measurements from both pre-election polling and the exit polls. As a scientist, I am always excited at getting data for hypotheses.
Kathryn, the point remains that the experience of the Scots-Irish in America and that of Irish Catholic immigrants has been very, very different. The first is the history of the 18th century frontier, Appalachia, and now "American" ancestry in the Census; the latter I surely don't need to distinguish. I'm not interested in dividing people into two clean blocs by DNA, but if you ask Jim Webb and Ted Kennedy to describe their heritage, you'd get different answers which explain why JFK's and Smith's candidacies were received very differently from McKinley's or Polk's.
"If Obama loses, I'd get out of that black neighborhood ASAP and stay out until the rioting is over."
Don't you realize this is not Watts? If Obama loses, we're going to YOUR neighborhood to riot...
West Roxbury was a black neighborhood in 1960? Not as I recall. Perhaps you're confusing it with Roxbury? (Or perhaps the demo has changed radically over the past 50 years - it's about 10% black now.)
You remind me of that twit woman in "Independence Day" standing on the top of a building with a welcome sign for the aliens.
We would have been better off with Powell as a candidate from the Democrats. At least he has a background we know. Short term it is just possibility, looking out long term it might very well be disastrous as we open the grab bag gift that is Barack Huessein Obama. The potential for a long term positive outcome from today stands at less than 50%. This is one case where "be careful what you wish for" has ramifications none of us could have anticipated. Nobody has any idea how great the disappointment will be simply because so many people have so many different expectations set up by Obama's hollow promises.
"Don't you realize this is not Watts? If Obama loses, we're going to YOUR neighborhood to riot..."
Threats of violence in response to political events is about as welcome as assassination references.
The JFK thing happened when I was 14 and I wonder if it'll be for black kids like it was for me (in a nostalgiac mood Irish), 'That's kind of neat (what did you expect?)' It actually would be more interesting now as the Church is in a Kulturkampf over abortion. Now I would think, 'Kennedy? If he's Catholic, I'm the friggin pope.' Pre Roe vs. Wade that wasn't an issue. That decision is part of the mine field McCain faces. My son tells me he couldn't have picked Bloomberg, who I would have preferred for VP as helpful on economic issues, because he is prochoice.
This pining for the non-existent NINA signs and days when 'Irish-Americans' were treated beastly by evil WASPs is cringe inducing.
A more representative moment of real grassroots Irish Americanism is the fight against for bussing in 1970s Southie. And when Irish Americans moved (fled - aka white flight) they didn't go looking for nice integrated neighborhoods, they moved out to suburbs with the American-Americans , you know, us Heinz 57 white folks.
BTW anyone stop to think that the expected overwhelming in percentage and volume black vote is almost exclusively racial in nature. After all Obama has no 'Roots' (tm) in a slavery sense and was raised in a white or white/indonesian household. So we aren't talking culture, we are talking raw racialism in the black community. That's cool with me, I just wish whites had maybe a half of that same feeling.
"However, I was always struck by how badly Obama overpolled in a lot of the non-southern states during the primaries. If this repeats on a similar scale in states like Ohio and PA today, he will lose the election."
See the link below for the full listing. Just with a brief glance, it looks like the inaccuracy swings both ways. Clinton received an actual +3 bump in PA and OH while Obama had over a +10 bump in VA.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/dem_results.html
Will a President Obama be as transforming for the U.S. as Mayor Dinkins was for New York City?
"This is a pretty great day to be living in a heavily black neighborhood."
Especially near the polls in Philadelphia.
I am sad to see so many blacks buy the policies of this man, policies that will be especially bad for blacks.
I was just saying something along these lines to my wife. I completely understand why African-Americans are so thrilled. Despite my misgivings about Obama's politics, I am also pretty excited to have a person who does look "different" in the White House.
However, something tells me were Obama's politics along the lines of Michael Steele's, there wouldn't be as much excitement about him...hmmm.
Wow, McArdle is in full idiotic meltdown mode.
Meanwhile:
Top Obama adviser Prof. Charles Ogletree says 21st-century white America, as a general rule, remains racist towards Blacks, Latinos, and Asians, and racism is likely to persist for decades -- Barack Obama is an exception only because "he happens to be biracial," so that his election will not be proof that whites have moved beyond racism.
See my name's link for a new plan from Obama that's open to Megan, but not to "those people", if you catch my drift. Yeah, you know who I'm talking about. Them.
But could a woman? After what happened to Hillary and Sarah P - I'd say likely not. So don't start feeling so great yet.
does this mean we can finally bury the "racism" meme in our society?
We have had African Americans at the highest levels of government and perhaps now a president. If we can get the Sharptons and Jacksons to STFU, perhaps we can move beyond the stereotypes.
All Obama has to do then is perform competently.
Will a President Obama be as transforming for the U.S. as Mayor Dinkins was for New York City?
After all, all black people govern alike!
Megan: Whether or not you are for Obama, the candidate, I think you have to admit that there is one pretty exciting thing happening today: we will never again live in an America where a black man can't be elected president.
You may turn out wrong here. Its clear there is little or no racial prejudice now. But if Obama is elected, and institutes a looter society that is about dividing a shrinking pie, you may well see a renaissance in racial prejudice.
I voted for Libertarians where I could, plus one independent. No Reds or Blues. African-American culture badly needs the self-esteem boost Obama's victory will inspire, so I'm okay with it. But really, the argument between socialism versus liberty was won by the socialists a long time ago. Anyone who voted for McCain to save us from the commies is a dope. All Democrats and Republicans forever lost my vote when they passed the bailout.
The problem that BHO is going to face has already been telegraphed by his own VP. The leaders of other countries aren't setups like McCain or idiots like many of BHO's opponents. If BHO wins, they're going to push him, and push him hard.
And, those of us who can actually think (i.e., unlike McArdle, Sully, et al) realize that it's true that BHO has a "glass jaw". He's easily rattled, and he even briefly showed that during the last debate. The only reason he appears cool and intelligent to some is because he's never really been challenged, and because those doing the judging (McArdle/Sully/etc.) aren't that bright or experienced to begin with.
On the domestic front, BHO's opponents are going to keep pushing, and it's going to make the opposition to the Clintons look like Sunday school. Eventually some of the things BHO tried to hide are going to come out. And, his policies are going to be revealed to be incredibly flawed; he's not going to be able to hide behind the MSM forever.
On the plus side, he might bring down the current Democratic Party. Let's hope that happens before he's able to stock the permanent government with too many people from the Machine. Plus, in addition to the Dem Party, him turning out to be a complete disaster will hopefully have an effect on the careers of his public boosters.
I'm glad to see at least a few people calling BS on the whole "no matter what happens, it's great that a black man can...." narrative.
No, only if The Obamessiah wins will it be an historic day. If he loses, nobody is going to give a damn how historic it was that a black man was a nominee. Every media outlet except for some people at Fox News and The New York Post will be crying, "I guess the country just wasn't ready....", and practically the entire African-American population will double their anger, and have their worst fears re-affirmed. Not that it will be true, but that's the lie we've all been fed by the media for so long, and what black people have been fed by their own leaders and idols, that nothing else will do.
Let's remember that the vast majority of African-American vox populi (not professional talking heads, mind), have been openly suspicious, and have qualified their elation with, "I'll believe it when I see it, I still don't trust, etc."
If McCain wins, the only history will be that made by the historic level of racial tension to follow, and possible riots.
I'm old enough (54) to remember seeing the events of the early-mid 60's (Selma, the March on Washington, etc.), and remember traveling with my parents through the South in 1966, and finding that the cafe in some town in Georgia had turned itself into a "private club" rather than admit African-Americans (we were white, so we could join the club and get breakfast). Today is testimony to the increased political maturity of the country, but also to the increased political maturity of African-American politicians (neither Jesse Jackson nor Al Sharpton could have taken advantage of this moment) and to the political suicide of the Republican Party.
Until maybe eight months ago I never thought I'd see a black president, and now I'm pleasantly surprised.
Obama is a thug, as has been nearly every person who has held the office. Yes, picking these thugs via elections is better than having them pick themselves, by being superior organizers of completely lawless goons, but the childishness displayed by some folks, in celebrating being ruled by thugs, thugs whose primary goal is to use the huge power of the state, in order to force the folks they oppose to submit to the will of the thugs, is almost depressing.
Well I, for one, only decided to vote for Obama in the booth. Why? Not entirely sure, but I think it was mainly that I didn't want to vote against the first black president. Or, perhaps, I didn't want to be the type of person who votes against the first black president.
Anyhow, I'd poll as a negative-Bradley effect (I told Zogby and a few telephone polls I was voting for a white guy). I'm not so conceited as to think I'm unique.
And, of course, as my post implied, I think the Bradley effect is close to nil, and that we've probably evolved to the state where the people are as interested in proving they aren't racists to themselves as to pollsters.
But, maybe I'm wrong. Analyzing voting patterns for this election will certainly keep people busy for a while.
I'm voting in NY, so, truly, my vote for Obama is irrelevant to anyone but me - I'd have had more influence voting for Barr (as was my intent until this morning) simply because that at least has signaling value (to both main parties) that there still is a libertarian-ish vote to be picked up out there.
"In other words, think of it this way. If Obama wins, won't you be pleased to have an intelligent, articulate, thoughtful President in the White House?"
I don't know, it will depend on his policies and appointments.
"That's already a major step forward. And I would hope he'll surprise you with reasoned decision making - though that's exactly what I expect from him and would be distraught if it's not the case."
It depends entirely on where his reason leads him.
I'm still skeptical.
How sure ARE you that NINA signs were mythical?
The Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_racism ) mentions there is some dispute, but also reproduces an ad from the 1854 New York Times with that very wording: "Also wanted, a young man from 16 to 13 years of age, able to wr(ite?) No Irish need apply."
The logic of Jensen (who argues NINA was a myth in the USA - http://tigger.uic.edu/~rjensen/no-irish.htm ) seems very suspect to me.
Because there were only a few paid NINA ads in online newspapers ("In the entire file of the New York Times from 1851 to 1923, there are two NINA ads for men, one of which is for a teenager. Computer searches of classified help wanted ads in the daily editions of other online newspapers before 1923 such as the Booklyn Eagle, the Washington Post and the Chicago Tribune show that NINA ads for men were extremely rare--fewer than two per decade."), he concludes " The complete absence of evidence suggests that probably zero such signs were seen at commercial establishments, shops, factories, stores, hotels, railroads, union halls, hiring halls, personnel offices, labor recruiters etc. anywhere in America, at any time."
But you have to PAY for each word in a newspaper ad, while a sign in a window costs next to nothing and is very unlikely to be recorded, so "ZERO" seems like a very low number.
"..we will never again live in an America where a black man can't be elected president. It's a great day for all of us--the thought really does thrill me every time I think it, even though I know I'm going to hate an awful lot of his policymaking."
Megan,
From John McCain's acceptance speech, I guess he shares your feelings.
Sure, Colin Powell could have been elected by a landslide; and we would be a lot better off if that had happened. But the predjudice frightened his family into dissuading him. That sort of fear is now gone, thanks be.
Sure, Colin Powell could have been elected by a landslide; and we would be a lot better off if that had happened. But the predjudice frightened his family into dissuading him. That sort of fear is now gone, thanks be.
But was that fear of prejudice justified? I may be wrong, but I don't believe the country's racial attitudes have changed appreciably over the last decade. The fears that dissuaded Powell could have dissuaded Obama as well, he simply chose not to surrender to them. And look how it turned out.
The major difference would be the Powell would have run as a Republican, and there is a segment of people (largely "liberals") who are pretty vicious, and often in racial terms, towards minority Republicans. But I don't get the sense that that's changed much in the past decade either.
West Roxbury is lily white and quite racist. I lived there with my african american girlfriend for a while (im white) and on multiple occasions our condo was pelted with oreos.