The problem is going to manifest itself a whole lot longer than two years. The phrase "Clinton appointee" might mean something to those who've been following along. Hopefully things will work out and we won't have to get used to the phrase "yet another one of Obama's Chicago Machine appointees". On the plus side, if he wins there will be a lot of time in which to point out how those who supported him were so incredibly wrong.
A one-party President, House, and Senate is not going to be pretty, but it will force the Reps into some soul searching, and maybe back towards a more federalized vision of government. How nice if we let 50, if not 1000, flowers bloom in governing, rather than have a monolithic, powerful State. At least, I hope, we can break up the monopoly by 2012, if not 2010.
OTOH, everything going forward will be the responsibility of the Dems, and they should be held accountable for successes and failures. I have been told dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and I intend to be very patriotic these next few years. Very patriotic.
No, no, no, johnv2, now we switch to the Democratic administation rule, which states that "You can't love your country and hate your government."
MoeLarryandJesus: I am sort of getting the feeling you don't have a wife or steady girlfriend. This is Ms. McArdle's shtick: she gets buyer's remorse immediately after an election (in this case, on election night). Telling her to relax and enjoy herself will only make her even more tense and unhappy.
OTOH, everything going forward will be the responsibility of the Dems, and they should be held accountable for successes and failures. I have been told dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and I intend to be very patriotic these next few years. Very patriotic.
Posted by Johnv2
Does anyone want to lay odds that this character was going on about people who were insufficiently supportive of Bush and all of his excellent adventures?
The hypocrisy won't stop once the election is over. In fact, a fresh new round is getting geared up, with the usual suspects now styling themselves the 'loyal opposition' (no traitorous labels for them!) Simultaneously, they'll also be saying that the new administration should be 'bipartisan', whatever that means, while professing to be unaware of the contradiction.
Hate your government? No, I don't hate my government. I do expect Big Things though; my taxes should go down, my healthcare will go up in quality and down in price, the economy will boom, stocks will go up, the lame will leap for joy. The Dems are in charge now, and anything and everything that goes awry is to be pinned on Obama and Co. No excuses, now is the time to deliver. I'm looking forward to being patriotic and dissenting whenever the new administration comes up short. Being the Opposition has advantages.
We'll see if O is up to his theme of Change, and if the change we get is Chicago machine politics on a national scale. We'll find out what he really believes and how good his leadership abilities are; do they really extend beyond telling everyone what he thinks they want to hear, for example. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he'll be a good, if not great, president. And maybe not.
What you mean long two years Megan? In the words of the immortal Marvin Gaye "this is what you wanted baby." You voted for the guy, how can you complain when he gets to govern?
"The hypocrisy won't stop once the election is over. In fact, a fresh new round is getting geared up, with the usual suspects now styling themselves the 'loyal opposition' (no traitorous labels for them!) Simultaneously, they'll also be saying that the new administration should be 'bipartisan', whatever that means, while professing to be unaware of the contradiction."
I am going to give that son of a bitch the same benefit of the doubt Dems gave Bush. It is going to be really fun hating the government again. It is going to be fun telling people what a piece of shit the President is. It is going to be fun getting the "not my President" bumber stickers. It is going to be fun refferring to Obama and his mindless army of thugs as Dear Leader.
The lesson of the last 8 years is subvert subvert subvert and hate hate hate. Everything Obama does has to be portrayed as a crime and a betrayal and seen in the most evil light. Never give up and never compromise.
I would love to buy into the "god and country" crap. But no one believes it anymore. It is done finished. The left plays dirty and anyone who doesn't play dirty back is a sucker.
My! What a gracious bunch of losers! Oh, and Bob, I'm glad you've pledged to live up to that high standard. The record shows that Democrats gave Bush far, far more slack than he deserved. Waaay past the point that he bulldozed the country into a needless war costing trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives.
So, of course, you're going to wait until Obama does something equally egregious, right? Why don't you tune in too McCain's concession speech. Right now, he's sounding a hell of a lot classier than you. Who are apparently going to get your hate on before the final votes are even tallied.
SoV, one of the real concerns I have, and apparently VP Biden, is that O is going to land us in a hot shooting war, probably within the next two years. Maybe caused by his proposed invasion of Pakistan, or maybe one of these "tests" our foreign policy expert VP foresees. If we can avoid another war for 4 years, I'll be grateful. And surprised. But I'm rooting for peace really hard.
But I see nothing wrong with holding O to his public promises, and reminding everyone again and again when he fails to deliver. My taxes must go down. The economy must soar. Europe, Asia, and South America must love us. I must have better and cheaper healthcare. If these things don't happen, O will have failed to deliver. Nothing wrong with holding a pol to a promise, and rubbing his nose in it if he fails. Right? No bipartisanship necessary, the Dems have the reins, and by the prophet's beard, they better deliver, and soon.
Given that Democrats are going to own the House and Senate, it sure would be nice to have a Republican in the White House to stand up against them. Which is why I still find your endorsement of Obama, no matter how much you dislike McCain, utterly bewildering.
Who are apparently going to get your hate on before the final votes are even tallied.
Yeah. Real classy, that.
Well, you 'rats set the standard for that kind of classy. And just for the record, I couldn't stand The One before he ever began his campaign just a few - what was it, hours? - after the the unqualified chump became a senator. I have a "thing" against Marxists who think wealth is a lump.
So Scent, because Bush was an awful president we shouldn't hold Obama to his promises?
I think Bush was a terrible president, I hope Obama will be better.
But it is his baby now. He has majorities in both houses.
He has promised to get us out of Iraq, revive our economy, improve wages for at the bottom of the incomd scale, provide health care for all, change the tone in Washington, get big money and special interest out of Washington, and give tax cuts to everyone making under 250k (actually reverse tax payments to some), and to be a moderate uniter.
He should be judged on how he fulfils those promises and the effect those promises have on the country. The Buck stops with him now and with a unified government their can be no excuses.
"Megan, you must be the most anemic Obama voter in the entire country. It's a great night. Allow yourself this one moment of happiness."
Nope, I think that has to be me.
I also wasn't all that thrilled when the uber-liberals at the bar last night shouted "bitch" or "cunt" everytime Palin popped into the picture during McCain's concession speech.
The tent is packed and the crowd is pouring out into the lawn, but after the confetti is done falling, the unity around this Chancy Gardner president is going to be revealed as tenuous at best. He's going to have to throw some of his supporters under this bus; who will be the first?
No, we very rightly condemn people going on about ". . .dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and I intend to be very patriotic these next few years. Very patriotic. " for being nasty, whiny, hypocritical sore losers.
And eccdogg, let's see those posts where you criticized Bush for not following through on his promise to be a uniter, not a divider. Should be easy to do.
I see an awful lot of people who are willing to kick Bush when he's down; I didn't see these same people criticizing him back in March and April of 2001 for already being a very partisan leader.
So throw-down time: Let's see those posts of yours back in 2001, 2002, 2003 criticizing your guy. Otherwise, to be quite blunt, I'll think you're lying, and lying only to try to score some cheap points. What's called Frankfurtian Bullshit:
"It is just this lack of connection to a concern with truth—this indifference to how things really are—that I regard as the essence of bullshit."
Well, I wasn't posting back then in the early days, but I have been highly critical of Bush over the last at least 6 years. And I did not vote for him in the last election (I did vote for him in 2000). He is not "My Guy"
He lost me with the prescription drug bill and it has been down hill ever since. Really the only positions that I have agreed with him on is imigration and social security and maybe the Roberts selection.
I disagree on
Iraq, Patriot Act, Dept of Homeland Security, Steel Tariffs, Prescription Drugs, Faith based programs, Guantanamo, executive power, farm bills, No child left behind, general increase in government spending, increase in military spending and the finacial bailout and that is just off the top of my head.
In addition to that his management style has been awful.
If Obama fails to deliver on his promises or what he has promissed does not work, I will hold him to it just as I have Bush. Obama like Bush promissed as lot in his job interview and I expect him to deliver.
Will you give Obama a free pass like you are criticizing other for since he is your guy?
"The record shows that Democrats gave Bush far, far more slack than he deserved."
Which Democrats are you talking about, SoV? Members of Congress? Or every individual Democrat? I'll believe it about the former, but not about the latter.
Well StenchofViolence, I haven't been posting for years. You'll just have to take my word that I've been critical of Mr. Bush on many issues. If you don't care to do so, go pound sand.
But Stench, it isn't about me, it is all about you now. Your guy needs to fulfill all those promises. Lower taxes, cheaper healthcare, regaining the respect and love of the world. I hope he succeeds, because those are laudable goals. But. The Presidency hasn't quite the powerful office other Glorious Leaders of the left had; Congress wields the power of the purse here. Pelosi and Reid have shown themselves capable of leading Congress to lower public esteem than Bush, and that's quite the accomplishment. Good luck with that.
Foreign affairs is one place a President can effect change. I'm with Biden in predicting a nasty foreign test for O, and I agree with Biden that he won't be up to the test. It will look like he has screwed up because, well, he'll screw it up. He'll screw up Afghanistan. I predict we'll suffer at least one major terror attack under O's watch on US soil. I predict that Iran and Israel will go at it with nukes -- that is the worst outcome of this election, I fear. I think there is better than an even chance O will bungle his way into a new shooting war.
And for my final prediction -- Obama will not win in 2012, and may not even run.
So, it's only okay when liberals are nasty, hypocritical sore losers. Then, it's patriotic dissent.
I'm sure you were the very picture of poise and graciousness over the past 8 years. Right?
Posted by moreliberalthanthou
I wouldn't know about it being okay when 'liberals' are nasty; I'm not particularly liberal. But the fact of the matter is that you and yours have been complaining for years about the other guys being 'sore losers', so immediately turning around and doing what you have been accusing others of is - to say the least - hypocritical.
And, no, while I didn't care for the guy, I didn't really start to complain until around 2003 or so. There was this invasion of a foreign country around then, you may recall ;-) _You_ on the other hand, are already being nasty less than 24 hours after the election.
In case you have any doubts - yes, I feel quite comfortable calling myself your moral superior, and I'm not particularly apologetic about that fact. Because, you see, I'm not all that moral.
so immediately turning around and doing what you have been accusing others of is - to say the least - hypocritical.
No, it's comeuppance.
I think it's interesting how your venom has completely eaten away your brain and you've started attributing your actions to me.
Point to one post where I have been nasty about Obama.
I've merely pointed out that people in glass houses (you) should not have been throwing stones. Payback hurts. I guess I must have hit a nerve with you. I found your behaviour over the past 8 years nauseating and I find it hilarious that you and your ilk can dish it out but you can't take it. I find that hilarious about the other side too, but your side started it in 2000, so I don't understand (well, I do but...) how you can complain now.
I care for neither Bush nor Obama. They are much more similar to me than they are to most people on either side. But you go on rocking your moral superiority all you want if it makes you feel better. As I laugh.
The problem is going to manifest itself a whole lot longer than two years. The phrase "Clinton appointee" might mean something to those who've been following along. Hopefully things will work out and we won't have to get used to the phrase "yet another one of Obama's Chicago Machine appointees". On the plus side, if he wins there will be a lot of time in which to point out how those who supported him were so incredibly wrong.
How the hell Elizabeth Dole ever became viewed (by some) as an above-average politician, in terms of attracting votes, is beyond me.
A one-party President, House, and Senate is not going to be pretty, but it will force the Reps into some soul searching, and maybe back towards a more federalized vision of government. How nice if we let 50, if not 1000, flowers bloom in governing, rather than have a monolithic, powerful State. At least, I hope, we can break up the monopoly by 2012, if not 2010.
OTOH, everything going forward will be the responsibility of the Dems, and they should be held accountable for successes and failures. I have been told dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and I intend to be very patriotic these next few years. Very patriotic.
Oh stop it. Buck up. The next two years will be much much shorter than the last 8.
Megan, you must be the most anemic Obama voter in the entire country. It's a great night. Allow yourself this one moment of happiness.
No, no, no, johnv2, now we switch to the Democratic administation rule, which states that "You can't love your country and hate your government."
MoeLarryandJesus: I am sort of getting the feeling you don't have a wife or steady girlfriend. This is Ms. McArdle's shtick: she gets buyer's remorse immediately after an election (in this case, on election night). Telling her to relax and enjoy herself will only make her even more tense and unhappy.
Does anyone want to lay odds that this character was going on about people who were insufficiently supportive of Bush and all of his excellent adventures?
The hypocrisy won't stop once the election is over. In fact, a fresh new round is getting geared up, with the usual suspects now styling themselves the 'loyal opposition' (no traitorous labels for them!) Simultaneously, they'll also be saying that the new administration should be 'bipartisan', whatever that means, while professing to be unaware of the contradiction.
Hate your government? No, I don't hate my government. I do expect Big Things though; my taxes should go down, my healthcare will go up in quality and down in price, the economy will boom, stocks will go up, the lame will leap for joy. The Dems are in charge now, and anything and everything that goes awry is to be pinned on Obama and Co. No excuses, now is the time to deliver. I'm looking forward to being patriotic and dissenting whenever the new administration comes up short. Being the Opposition has advantages.
We'll see if O is up to his theme of Change, and if the change we get is Chicago machine politics on a national scale. We'll find out what he really believes and how good his leadership abilities are; do they really extend beyond telling everyone what he thinks they want to hear, for example. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe he'll be a good, if not great, president. And maybe not.
What you mean long two years Megan? In the words of the immortal Marvin Gaye "this is what you wanted baby." You voted for the guy, how can you complain when he gets to govern?
"The hypocrisy won't stop once the election is over. In fact, a fresh new round is getting geared up, with the usual suspects now styling themselves the 'loyal opposition' (no traitorous labels for them!) Simultaneously, they'll also be saying that the new administration should be 'bipartisan', whatever that means, while professing to be unaware of the contradiction."
I am going to give that son of a bitch the same benefit of the doubt Dems gave Bush. It is going to be really fun hating the government again. It is going to be fun telling people what a piece of shit the President is. It is going to be fun getting the "not my President" bumber stickers. It is going to be fun refferring to Obama and his mindless army of thugs as Dear Leader.
The lesson of the last 8 years is subvert subvert subvert and hate hate hate. Everything Obama does has to be portrayed as a crime and a betrayal and seen in the most evil light. Never give up and never compromise.
I would love to buy into the "god and country" crap. But no one believes it anymore. It is done finished. The left plays dirty and anyone who doesn't play dirty back is a sucker.
My! What a gracious bunch of losers! Oh, and Bob, I'm glad you've pledged to live up to that high standard. The record shows that Democrats gave Bush far, far more slack than he deserved. Waaay past the point that he bulldozed the country into a needless war costing trillions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives.
So, of course, you're going to wait until Obama does something equally egregious, right? Why don't you tune in too McCain's concession speech. Right now, he's sounding a hell of a lot classier than you. Who are apparently going to get your hate on before the final votes are even tallied.
Yeah. Real classy, that.
y81 says: "MoeLarryandJesus: I am sort of getting the feeling you don't have a wife or steady girlfriend. "
I've been married for 20 years, chuckles. You conservatives can't get anything right these days.
Good riddance to your movement. It was a cancer on America, and it has been removed tonight.
SoV, one of the real concerns I have, and apparently VP Biden, is that O is going to land us in a hot shooting war, probably within the next two years. Maybe caused by his proposed invasion of Pakistan, or maybe one of these "tests" our foreign policy expert VP foresees. If we can avoid another war for 4 years, I'll be grateful. And surprised. But I'm rooting for peace really hard.
But I see nothing wrong with holding O to his public promises, and reminding everyone again and again when he fails to deliver. My taxes must go down. The economy must soar. Europe, Asia, and South America must love us. I must have better and cheaper healthcare. If these things don't happen, O will have failed to deliver. Nothing wrong with holding a pol to a promise, and rubbing his nose in it if he fails. Right? No bipartisanship necessary, the Dems have the reins, and by the prophet's beard, they better deliver, and soon.
Given that Democrats are going to own the House and Senate, it sure would be nice to have a Republican in the White House to stand up against them. Which is why I still find your endorsement of Obama, no matter how much you dislike McCain, utterly bewildering.
Who are apparently going to get your hate on before the final votes are even tallied.
Yeah. Real classy, that.
Well, you 'rats set the standard for that kind of classy. And just for the record, I couldn't stand The One before he ever began his campaign just a few - what was it, hours? - after the the unqualified chump became a senator. I have a "thing" against Marxists who think wealth is a lump.
So of course, when the 'uniter not a divider' began immediately to govern in a style most partisan, you in turn immediately began criticizing him.
Let's see the replay.
So Scent, because Bush was an awful president we shouldn't hold Obama to his promises?
I think Bush was a terrible president, I hope Obama will be better.
But it is his baby now. He has majorities in both houses.
He has promised to get us out of Iraq, revive our economy, improve wages for at the bottom of the incomd scale, provide health care for all, change the tone in Washington, get big money and special interest out of Washington, and give tax cuts to everyone making under 250k (actually reverse tax payments to some), and to be a moderate uniter.
He should be judged on how he fulfils those promises and the effect those promises have on the country. The Buck stops with him now and with a unified government their can be no excuses.
"Megan, you must be the most anemic Obama voter in the entire country. It's a great night. Allow yourself this one moment of happiness."
Nope, I think that has to be me.
I also wasn't all that thrilled when the uber-liberals at the bar last night shouted "bitch" or "cunt" everytime Palin popped into the picture during McCain's concession speech.
The tent is packed and the crowd is pouring out into the lawn, but after the confetti is done falling, the unity around this Chancy Gardner president is going to be revealed as tenuous at best. He's going to have to throw some of his supporters under this bus; who will be the first?
No, we very rightly condemn people going on about ". . .dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and I intend to be very patriotic these next few years. Very patriotic. " for being nasty, whiny, hypocritical sore losers.
And eccdogg, let's see those posts where you criticized Bush for not following through on his promise to be a uniter, not a divider. Should be easy to do.
I see an awful lot of people who are willing to kick Bush when he's down; I didn't see these same people criticizing him back in March and April of 2001 for already being a very partisan leader.
So throw-down time: Let's see those posts of yours back in 2001, 2002, 2003 criticizing your guy. Otherwise, to be quite blunt, I'll think you're lying, and lying only to try to score some cheap points. What's called Frankfurtian Bullshit:
Well, I wasn't posting back then in the early days, but I have been highly critical of Bush over the last at least 6 years. And I did not vote for him in the last election (I did vote for him in 2000). He is not "My Guy"
He lost me with the prescription drug bill and it has been down hill ever since. Really the only positions that I have agreed with him on is imigration and social security and maybe the Roberts selection.
I disagree on
Iraq, Patriot Act, Dept of Homeland Security, Steel Tariffs, Prescription Drugs, Faith based programs, Guantanamo, executive power, farm bills, No child left behind, general increase in government spending, increase in military spending and the finacial bailout and that is just off the top of my head.
In addition to that his management style has been awful.
If Obama fails to deliver on his promises or what he has promissed does not work, I will hold him to it just as I have Bush. Obama like Bush promissed as lot in his job interview and I expect him to deliver.
Will you give Obama a free pass like you are criticizing other for since he is your guy?
McArdle was not an Obama voter. She was too lazy and too stupid to vote.
I know it's hard to stay awake reading this drivel, but she mentioned that fact quite prominently.
"The record shows that Democrats gave Bush far, far more slack than he deserved."
Which Democrats are you talking about, SoV? Members of Congress? Or every individual Democrat? I'll believe it about the former, but not about the latter.
for being nasty, whiny, hypocritical sore losers.
So, it's only okay when liberals are nasty, hypocritical sore losers. Then, it's patriotic dissent.
I'm sure you were the very picture of poise and graciousness over the past 8 years. Right?
You might be pleasantly surprised, there are a lot of blue dogs out there now. Should be interesting to see if we end up center-left or far-left.
I agree Geoff that many of those elected are not too far left (Like Kay Hagen)
But the problem is that the leadership is pretty far left and Obama's instincts are pretty far left.
Unless the Blue Dogs break with thier own party and stage a revolt they won't be too effective in the house.
There is a little better chance in the Senate with the fillibuster and the fact that the leadership has less power.
Well StenchofViolence, I haven't been posting for years. You'll just have to take my word that I've been critical of Mr. Bush on many issues. If you don't care to do so, go pound sand.
But Stench, it isn't about me, it is all about you now. Your guy needs to fulfill all those promises. Lower taxes, cheaper healthcare, regaining the respect and love of the world. I hope he succeeds, because those are laudable goals. But. The Presidency hasn't quite the powerful office other Glorious Leaders of the left had; Congress wields the power of the purse here. Pelosi and Reid have shown themselves capable of leading Congress to lower public esteem than Bush, and that's quite the accomplishment. Good luck with that.
Foreign affairs is one place a President can effect change. I'm with Biden in predicting a nasty foreign test for O, and I agree with Biden that he won't be up to the test. It will look like he has screwed up because, well, he'll screw it up. He'll screw up Afghanistan. I predict we'll suffer at least one major terror attack under O's watch on US soil. I predict that Iran and Israel will go at it with nukes -- that is the worst outcome of this election, I fear. I think there is better than an even chance O will bungle his way into a new shooting war.
And for my final prediction -- Obama will not win in 2012, and may not even run.
I wouldn't know about it being okay when 'liberals' are nasty; I'm not particularly liberal. But the fact of the matter is that you and yours have been complaining for years about the other guys being 'sore losers', so immediately turning around and doing what you have been accusing others of is - to say the least - hypocritical.
And, no, while I didn't care for the guy, I didn't really start to complain until around 2003 or so. There was this invasion of a foreign country around then, you may recall ;-) _You_ on the other hand, are already being nasty less than 24 hours after the election.
In case you have any doubts - yes, I feel quite comfortable calling myself your moral superior, and I'm not particularly apologetic about that fact. Because, you see, I'm not all that moral.
so immediately turning around and doing what you have been accusing others of is - to say the least - hypocritical.
No, it's comeuppance.
I think it's interesting how your venom has completely eaten away your brain and you've started attributing your actions to me.
Point to one post where I have been nasty about Obama.
I've merely pointed out that people in glass houses (you) should not have been throwing stones. Payback hurts. I guess I must have hit a nerve with you. I found your behaviour over the past 8 years nauseating and I find it hilarious that you and your ilk can dish it out but you can't take it. I find that hilarious about the other side too, but your side started it in 2000, so I don't understand (well, I do but...) how you can complain now.
I care for neither Bush nor Obama. They are much more similar to me than they are to most people on either side. But you go on rocking your moral superiority all you want if it makes you feel better. As I laugh.