Allegedly, Apple is
declining to repair Macs owned by smokers on the ground that secondhand smoke is dangerous. This a gross misunderstanding of the science--theoretically, tobacco tar could be hazardous if applied to your skin, but you'd have to really slather it on, leave it there for an extended period, and reapply fairly frequently. But it also seems like a gross misunderstanding of who makes up their customer base on the East Coast.
So tell me people on which side of the "culture war" are more scientifically ignorant and "anti-intellectual"?
Is that not painfully obvious yet?
New rule: Don't hire Democrats.
Ummm...Republican?
Ummm...I'd still go with the side that doesn't build giant museums depicting dinosaurs on Noah's ark.
I like the part where T-Rex was about ready to eat the chickens, and has to be tossed overboard somewhere near what would be New Mexico. Talk about intergenerational conflicts.
It's a good thing he didn't succeed...Can't live without my Chicken McNuggets (T-Rex McNuggets?).
All right, I admit I was too flippant. But on the day when the global warming hysteria was given a blow it was too much not to mock the stuff-white-people-like set.
It would astonish me if any of this were true (Apple refusing, or there being any OSHA issue whatsoever). I mean, mechanics don't refuse to work on your car because it contains known carcinogens in the form of petroleum products.
But I suppose no level of stupidity is beyond the modern corporate bureaucrat.
AppleCare is merely insurance for your computer.
The company is reneging on its contractual agreements to repair its computers so that it can earn higher profits on its sales of insurance products. And since only liberal morons buy Apple products, I'm not all that concerned about them getting ripped off.
I think it's almost as funny as liberals thinking that "Health Reform" means they'll be getting free health care from the government.
...And since only liberal morons buy Apple products...
You're a beauty, aren't you.
He's a PC.
Rush Limbaugh owns a mac.
So conservative morons do too.
Well, smart liberals and conservative morons, do.
You're like the jackass of all trades (economist, businessman, politician, and now lawyer).
Thanks Bill,
I wasn't sure everyone noticed my multi-dimensional genius. I'm glad you took the time out to let everyone know the many topics on which I'm the smartest guy in this room.
We won't be adding linguist to that description any time soon.
Sometimes a mule is just a mule.
This story does sound like it is made up, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true- there are a lot of idiot in the world, and they are found in a lot of places you wouldn't expect it.
Regardless of health consequences to the people fixing your computer, I think it would be good to remind people to not smoke cigarettes near their computer while it is in use. Cigarette smoke does leave a residue that damages your computer. http://hubpages.com/hub/How-Cigarette-Smoke-Damages-Computers
Good link. That's pretty much exactly what I've seen, although that's a looser and deeper build up there. I can see someone who was smoking paranoid looking at that and saying they didn't want to touch it.
But is Apple claiming this stuff is a particular health hazard? Or just saying we don't want to repair the computer you ruined by pumping tar soot into it?
I'd like to see a side by side comparison of another PC with a similar usage history but-for being in a smoke-free environment. My guess is you'll see just as much build-up, except it will be a light grey color instead of a brown color. That is, I suspect much of that build-up is dust with a residue of tar causing the discoloration.
I've seen at least a hundred non-smoking pcs and probably 10 smoking ones and trust me, you cannot mistake them and it's not just color. There is much more buildup and it's fundamentally different. It's sticky and heavy. The stickiness probably is why there is more dust overall. Stuff that goes in a smoking computer stays there. Especially on heat sinks. Those are usually pristine even in 5 year old computers, but add some smoke (which probably condenses there) and it's a mess.
But this isn't why apple is saying they won't work on them. Their saying the nicotine-tar-dust is an OSHA hazard. I thought that sounded silly until I thought about how you blast one of those things out.
Yeah, I think the tar holds the dust in place and makes the problem worse.
Those photos are actually pretty moderate cases from what I've seen. I've worked on computers where everything inside the case was stained with a yellow soot. It can be really disgusting and difficult to remove, and can probably cause overheating.
I don't know enough background to comment on any of the cases in that Consumerist post, but I'd be surprised if Apple's warranties don't have a clause exempting coverage for environmental damage. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if someone at Apple resorted to health and safety rhetoric instead of saying, more honestly, "You and your computer are too gross to help."
In one of my iterations, I serviced a ventilation unit that served a bar. It was coated with a thick black film. Disgusting.
I would prefer not to work on stuff like that. Maybe Apple is having difficulty finding people to service them. They pay a flat rate for a service, and having to clean up a mess like that takes time that no one will pay for.
Derek
IMO not the best example, as even an un-smoked computer can get that kind of buildup in the fans and heatsink if you live in a relatively dry and dusty climate.
Where it gets ugly is when you look real close at the various components and realize that EVERYthing in the system is uniformly coated with a sticky yellow film of mingled tar and nicotine. The consistency is like old flypaper and the smell is akin to a wet ashtray. You pretty much have to use a non-residual organic solvent (butane or 70% isopropyl alcohol do the trick) to break it up. Needless to say the film completely wrecks the convection process, which is the natural first stage for all cooling processes in the system, regardless of whether or not a fan or heatsink is involved. It doesn't just happen to computers, consumer electronics with ventilation (e.g. stereo receiver) or access openings (such as a DVD player) can get a destructive buildup like this.
It will be interesting to see if one of these cases goes forward with a civil suit, and what the findings are. I would think that unless Apple's terms explicitly list cigarette smoke as a warranty-voiding environmental hazard, they would still be obligated to make good on the terms, even if it means fully replacing the unit or its internals in order to avoid exposing their technicians to hazardous substances.
I don't know why Apple is refusing this specifically, but I can tell you that a smoker's computer is typically completely covered inside with a kind of sticky dark dust. Especially the heat sink, but optical drive, everything. You might laugh, but you have to remember that a computer is basically acts like an electrostatic air filter and really pumps a ton of air through there.
Imac would be worst because the air inlet is about 18" from the smokers mouth.
But if they are saying they won't work on it because of the danger to themselves, that's bogus, but probably a way to try and get around the point that they didn't include this in the warrantee language.
Leave it to the "libertarians" to make this a culture war issue.
Well, I guess it's good that NYC banned smoking in bars then. Otherwise that hipster d-bag who is always dilligently working on a script at my favorite Brooklyn bar wouldn't be able to use his applecare warranty! Brings new meaning to the term "tragically hip".
Hey - don't knock the 'Hip. Gord Downie rules!
If you read the comments at the linked site - one has two photos of the inside of smoker's computers - Apple's position sounds a lot less crazy than you might think. Evidently smoke really does gum up computers. I agree with the people above that the bio-hazard thing is bogus: they should simply say that the damage was inflicted by the customer and hence is not covered by the warranty. (IF the damage was inflicted by the customer.)
People still smoke?
I'm kind of rethinking the idea that the hazard claim is bogus. The usual way to clean that kind of stuff out is compressed air, meaning you blast it up in the air. Airborne nicotine-tar dust would probably be a pretty serious hazard, and if you're a nancy-boy you have a right to be concerned about that. They could use a powerful vacuum with a filter. But that would be requiring them to change procedure to deal with your hazardous situation, so I'm going to say that they are legally in the right here. They should explain themselves, though, to keep the know-nothings from blowing this up. I see shades of the McDonalds coffee incident here. It sounds ridiculous to someone who doesn't bother to think about it.
I don't think you could remove it with compressed air, at least not the stuff I've seen in computers. Too sticky.
True. But that's probably what the tech manual says they are supposed to do.
Unless Apple clearly stated this exclusion before selling the machine (for normal warranty service) or the extended warranty, it's illegal.
It's only illegal until the class-action lawsuit is over with. Until then, it's profitable.
This is the sort of dick move that can make a brand unpopular, even among non-smokers.
I'm pretty sure that legally, operating your computer in a cloud of tar smoke would be found to technically violate the warranty. I imagine it is worded so that anything the user does to significantly negatively alter the operating environment to cause greater wear voids it out. You probably couldn't run it in a saw mill, for instance, though no doubt the warranty doesn't spell it out.
I think how much of a "dick" move this is depends on the extent to which they explain the valid reasons why smoking quickly destroys your computer. No one who hasn't opened one of these up and compared will think of that. I've not seen it, but I bet the all-in-one imac design is the most susceptible model out there.
Smoking at your computer WILL destroy it. And I think cleaning one out in the standard way would create an OSHA violation for the tech. So while most of Megan's post is kind of knee-jerk and know-nothing, the idea that Apple should at least do some pr on it before the media hooligans run wild seems valid.
All Apple has to do is clearly state that they will not warrant products used by smokers. Then smokers can decide whether or not they will buy the Apple products. That seems fair.
My guess is that this is really not a coherent policy they've actively decided on. Probably some tech center got a really nasty smoky mess computer and the tech didn't want to touch it and his boss said yeah, that's a hazard. It is kind of gross. I've done it. And I like secondhand smoke.
Just like the sawmill, it's at the discretion of the company on inspection whether their product has been used in accordance with their guidelines, based on the damage there. A failed computer packed with sawdust just shows a usage problem, and everyone would say yeah, you can't pump particulate into a box and expect the boxmaker to stand behind it, even if they didn't say "no sawmill use." The smoking thing is borderline. I'd say it's a case by case call.
Let that be a lesson to anyone who is considering purchasing an Apple computer. Apple retains a stranglehold on everything related to their machines. Which is why Apple compatible software is more of an afterthought for a company. And why Macs cost at least twice as much as other computers.
Apple's computer customer base consists of:
-people who do not know how to use a computer
-people who do graphic design/art
-geeks who are not geek-cool enough to run linux
-people who want the hip, mac image
Trust me.
You forgot liberal douchebags.
O.K., I'll trust you that as an 11 year IT admin for my company, I don't know how to use a computer.
I'll trust you that macs can't run Linux or Windows.
I'll trust you that they cost 2x "other computers."**
Personally, dealing with IT and needed to support multiple platforms, my 24"imac pretty much does the job of two or 3 computers for about 1.2x the price of one of them. But I'll trust you since I think you're A Very Serious Person and really up on this stuff
http://news.cnet.com/Researcher-Macs-not-as-expensive-as-thought/2100-1041_3-6072837.html
**If the other computers are half-speced AMD discount singapore trash with whining fans, undersized heatsinks, and jumpy power supplies.
I don't want a computer. I'm very happy with Macintoshes; I will gladly pay a premium price for an interface that makes intuitive sense to me, and for relatively noncranky operation. I had to use a computer at my last corporate job and it was like using a Mac that had had a stroke and recovered part of the way.
And, you know, making products for niche markets with specialized tastes is a classic capitalist strategy for business survival; I don't see the slightest objection to it on libertarian grounds. . . .
Nancy-boy?? I had to look it up. Meant gay back when gay meant happy!! Sorta dated!?!
I think it more meant sissy. That's how I use it. No offense to my gay brethren. Especially those who smoke.
Cough and bend over?
Don't cough, don't hack?
Defense of Smoking Act?
Golly, then they'd better be really draconian with cat owners.
No comparison. Cat hair at worst makes a mat at the intake screen. It doesn't even get in. It could reduce airflow a little. But smoking eventually just makes a thermo barrier coating all over the place, especially on the heat sink.
I have to think most of this reaction is people who really just don't understand what happens in a smoking computer.
Isn't a smoking computer one that's on FIRE?
I have to think most of this reaction is people who really just don't understand what happens in a smoking computer.
Well, if it's an issue, they can spell it out in the warranty. If they don't do that, then they shouldn't be surprised if people are both unaware of the problem and unsympathetic to their "solution."
99% of Apple customers are smart, healthy people and don't smoke. The 1% who do deserve the royal screwing they just gave themselves.
This seems logical to me. It's violating the TOS by smoking around a PC product. Smokers deserve everything that they got coming.
What is their East Coast customer base? Could it be writers who have been issued a Macbook Pro at work and take it home and light up while blogging from the couch? I doubt anyone would smoke and scatter ash into the keyboard of their own Apple product. Some things are sacrosanct, after all. I would never smoke near my Cube.
This is three strikes against Rush Limbaugh ever getting his computer fixed:
#1: He owns a Mac. (I'll leave you to draw your own conclusion.)
#2: He smokes cigars. (Communisty Cubans? CIA's: Castro Ixploding Accidentes? Hembargoed Havanas?)
#3: He lives in Florida. (No AppleCare available.)
(Crickets in the background.)
Err...
Even if they smoke, who the hell smokes tobacco in their house? Except people who couldn't afford an Apple? (Pot, well, different story there...)
Er...the majority of all tobacco smokers? Where do you think most smokers use the stuff?
Seriously, it doesn't surprise me at all about the effect of the smoke on PC (and other electronics). My own parents were heavy smokers, back in long-lost time of my childhood, before they got smart and decided they'd rather live to die of old age.
I helped my mother clean the interior walls of her house once, after they decided to quit (or about that time, anyway), and the paneling was so covered in brown-grey gunk that when we finished the house literally looked like it had been re-paneled with lighter colored paneling. The crap in the cleaning buckets was disgusting.
The claim that smoking is a nasty habit is not just metaphorical.
Plenty of people still smoke in their houses, I bet, and I was one of them until about two years ago. I've quit but it's a good thing I've always bought PC laptops, primarily Dell. I have several, all working just fine, and the only reason I have so many is that I wanted newer and faster. They date back to 1997, are filled with dog hair as well as smoke. This discussion is amusing.
Or they could just be figuring out a way to get people to buy another Apple, and not worry about the cost of repairing one that's already been bought. You know, to make money.
This whole thread seems a little naive to me, but I guess I'm just one of those eff the man liberals.
Please tell me that the posts above are from a group of friends at a bar or doing dope or something like that eager to pull our leg?
That they roll dice to determine "okay it's YOUR turn to be bupolos the next time it's his/her turn to respond?
As a tech guy and a former smoker, I don't have a huge problem with this. Citing health concerns is a bit ridiculous, but smoking around your computer can fairly be considered negligent behavior that led to your computer's early demise. As other people have posted, smoker's computers get nasty build-up on the inside and then the vents get clogged with dust and dirt, making it much more likely to overheat. Back when I was smoking two packs a day, I opened up the case of my computer to upgrade the RAM and hard drive and I was revolted at how disgusting the inside of the machine was. You need a flat head screwdriver or a putty knife to get that crap off. Here is a fairly typical view of the inside of a smoker's computer: http://images.topix.com/gallery/up-VHKI3QS6FFI3LKNC.jpg
This thread settles it. The design problem in the Mac is the presence of a fan. That is what concentrates nasty substances out of the air; and this concentration of toxicity is a threat to the health and wellbeing of Mac users.
The remedy ia recall of all Macs with a fan; for replacement of that dangerous compnent with a some other, safe eqivalent. Of course, the users endagered by this faulty product should also bring a class action against Apple for compensation.